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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] end cap Pressure hulls
Here's another end cap sub:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2403086182&category=31271
http://www.oceanexplorer.us/
I find it an interesting design, it's got a good surface range (~400 miles),
diver delivery, deep diving (1000 feet), lots of viewports...
Ian.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:32:10 -0500
"Andy Jensen" <drewacard@charter.net> wrote:
> I like the vertical give me a little more head room.
>
> On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:34:24 -0500
> "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Cool! I use autocad too! You can make the drawing with
> >the thickness. Only the hull with view ports and hatch.
> >You can ad intern part only if they ad to the overall
> >strengt of the hull.
> >
> >How many of you out there like more the horizontal vs
> >vertical design? Please vote!
> >
> >Ian, are you still there? Can you give the basic hull
> >dim?
> >
> >Pierre Poulin
> >"forgot cat outside yesterday, must go petshop today"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Thijs Struijs" <thijs-struijs@planet.nl>
> >>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
> >>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:50:58 +0100
> >>
> >>Pierre,
> >>
> >>That would be great! I can make a 3D autocad drawing of
> >>the design. Eighter
> >>as a solid shape or with the actual materialthicknesses.
> >>I can draw the
> >>different parts in different layers, you say it and i
> >>will send them as you
> >>wish.
> >>
> >>greatings,
> >>
> >>Thijs Struijs
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
> >>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:47 PM
> >>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Alec.
> >>>
> >>> One of my friend work in a university here. The students
> >>>he work with
> >>made
> >>a
> >>> psub as there final project ( see
> >>> http://www.imq.qc.ca/presse/Archives/p001120.htm )
> >>>
> >>> I can arrange with my friend and those student a
> >>>computer simulation of
> >>the
> >>> design. I know they did it with there sub.
> >>>
> >>> What about that?
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Poulin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >From: "Alec Smyth" <Asmyth@changepoint.com>
> >>> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
> >>> >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:17:22 -0500
> >>> >
> >>> >Here's a typical lesson I learned when I went from a
> >>>submarine project
> >>in
> >>> >my CAD software to a submarine project in my garage. My
> >>>original design
> >>> >called for an endcap on the stern, I think it was 30.5"
> >>>in diameter or
> >>> >something like that. When I went to order it, they
> >>>quoted me $4,160 for
> >>a
> >>> >single endcap, of which $4,000 was the setup cost and
> >>>$160 the
> >>production
> >>> >cost. The $4,000 was because my dimensions were not
> >>>standard. But if I
> >>> >adjusted my design by half an inch, the cost was just
> >>>$160.
> >>> >
> >>> >You'll find standard dimensions in references like the
> >>>Pressure Vessel
> >>> >Handbook (or some European equivalent). It doesn't hurt
> >>>to talk to the
> >>> >manufacturers, they are very helpful indeed. After all
> >>>you're the
> >>customer
> >>> >and they want to sell.
> >>> >
> >>> >If someone on the list can run a finite element
> >>>analysis on the design
> >>with
> >>> >the viewport seats through the endcap flanges, and they
> >>>can be designed
> >>> >with a good safety margin, I'm all for a vertical
> >>>saucer design. Voila,
> >>an
> >>> >instant pressure hull.
> >>> >
> >>> >rgds,
> >>> >
> >>> >Alec
> >>> >
> >>> >-----Original Message-----
> >>> >From: Thijs Struijs [mailto:thijs-struijs@planet.nl]
> >>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:43 PM
> >>> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >Pierre,
> >>> >
> >>> >Good idea for the OSS pressure hull.
> >>> >
> >>> >These endcaps can be bought. There are probably some
> >>>standard
> >>dimensions
> >>> >because they need special tools to make them. At this
> >>>moment i did not
> >>> >contact any manufacturers at all because when i do, i
> >>>want to know what
> >>i
> >>> >am
> >>> >talking about. You don't get a second chance meeting
> >>>someone for the
> >>firts
> >>> >time. I do know there are standard relations between
> >>>diameter and
> >>radii.
> >>> >For
> >>> >more information you can have a look at these websites:
> >>> >
> >>> >http://www.bakertankhead.com/products.htm (USA)
> >>> >
> >>> >http://www.afflerbach.de/html/default.htm (Germany)
> >>> >
> >>> >http://www.antonius.nl/antonius/home/products.asp?lang=English
> >>> >(Netherlands)
> >>> >
> >>> >Greetings,
> >>> >
> >>> >Thijs Struijs
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >----- Original Message -----
> >>> >From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
> >>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:47 PM
> >>> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hey, OSS group!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > How about using that hull for the project? It look
> >>>simple and could
> >>have
> >>> >two
> >>> > > persons side by side. Like the Cousteau thing.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Also, are those end-caps available or do you have to
> >>>build them from
> >>> > > scratch?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Bye, Bye!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Pierre Poulin
> >>> > > "I'm skating instead of diving!"
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > >From: "Alec Smyth" <Asmyth@changepoint.com>
> >>> > > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >>> > > >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> >>> > > >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull
> >>> > > >Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:42:50 -0500
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Thijs,
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >I love the simplicity of a hull made from simply
> >>>two endcaps. I
> >>thought
> >>> > > >mine would be simple enough as it is basically a
> >>>reinforced pipe,
> >>yet
> >>> > > >welding two elliptical heads like this would have
> >>>saved me at least
> >>6
> >>> > > >months work, or more. The reason is you would not
> >>>have to contend
> >>with
> >>> >a
> >>> > > >cylinder which is never quite round when you
> >>>receive it, and
> >>getting
> >>> >round
> >>> > > >rings into an oval cylinder was the hardest thing
> >>>on the whole
> >>project
> >>> >so
> >>> > > >far. The part I would worry about is that you have
> >>>inserts that
> >>cross
> >>> >the
> >>> > > >join between the two halves. Not that it can't be
> >>>done, but it
> >>> >introduces
> >>> > > >what to me at any rate are unknowns in the stress
> >>>calculations. I
> >>try
> >>> >to
> >>> > > >use only things that I can calculate.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Besides Cousteau's saucer, there is another sub out
> >>>there based on
> >>this
> >>> > > >principle of joining two elliptical heads.
> >>>Unfortunately I can't
> >>recall
> >>> >its
> >>> > > >name, but I remember seeing a picture of it online
> >>>somewhere,
> >>hanging
> >>> >from
> >>> > > >a crane and painted white and orange. If anyone can
> >>>recall the sub
> >>I'm
> >>> > > >referring to, you might find it a neat idea. What
> >>>they did was
> >>incline
> >>> >the
> >>> > > >"saucer". It was oriented in a horizontal plane
> >>>like Cousteau's,
> >>except
> >>> >it
> >>> > > >was also inclined "up hill" about 30-45 degrees.
> >>>While this might
> >>seem
> >>> >odd,
> >>> > > >they also had an exostructure that faired it. The
> >>>lower head had
> >>two
> >>> >bubble
> >>> > > >windows facing forward, but as the saucer was
> >>>inclined, these two
> >>> >windows
> >>> > > >did not have to cross the weld between the two
> >>>heads. The occupants
> >>> > > >traveled lying down and the hatch was of course on
> >>>the upper shell.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >rgds,
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Alec
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > > >From: Thijs Struijs
> >>>[mailto:thijs-struijs@planet.nl]
> >>> > > >Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:02 PM
> >>> > > >To: PSUBS
> >>> > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >To all,
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >I would like some reactions on a drawing i made a
> >>>while ago. You
> >>can
> >>> >find
> >>> > > >it at:
> >>> >http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030126.073208/doubleXendXcapX.jpg
> >>> > > >.
> >>> > > >The idea is to construct a very simple pressure
> >>>hull out of two
> >>> > > >torispherical endcaps. The conning "tower" is made
> >>>out of a
> >>standard
> >>> >line
> >>> > > >pipe with a little overdimensioned wallthickness
> >>>and the smallest
> >>> >possible
> >>> > > >diameter. The endcaps are made with a small
> >>>cilindrical section on
> >>it
> >>> >but
> >>> >i
> >>> > > >am afraid that the tower will intersect with the
> >>>torispherical
> >>part.
> >>> > > >In order to keep it simple i chose a very common
> >>>steel for the
> >>endcaps.
> >>> >It
> >>> > > >is P265GH (yield strenght 265 n/mm^2, 38500 psi,
> >>>tensile strenght
> >>410
> >>> > > >n/mm^2, 59500 psi). This is an "off the shelf"
> >>>material at
> >>Afflerbach,
> >>> >the
> >>> > > >german manufacturer. I think you could call it soft
> >>>boiler steel.
> >>> > > >To calculate the strenght of it (apart from the
> >>>conningtower and
> >>> >viewports)
> >>> > > >one can use the formulas for a sphere, using the
> >>>dishing radius of
> >>the
> >>> > > >endcap (in this case 1040 mm). Maybe it is my age,
> >>>to much alcohol
> >>or
> >>> >lack
> >>> > > >of intelligence but watever method i use (ABS,
> >>>Lloyd's or an old
> >>> >pressure
> >>> > > >vessel codebook) i get different outcommings. Can
> >>>anyone of you say
> >>> > > >something sensible on this? I am considdering a
> >>>wallthickness of 12
> >>mm,
> >>> > > >divingdepth 100 mtr?
> >>> > > >If it is ever going to be build it will be tested
> >>>unmanned to a
> >>depth
> >>> >50%
> >>> > > >more than its safe working depth. Should it
> >>>collapse i will hold no
> >>one
> >>> > > >responsible for that. So please be free to give
> >>>your advise.
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Thank you very much,
> >>> > > >
> >>> > > >Thijs Struijs
> >>> > > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>>_________________________________________________________________
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> >>>vous !
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> >>> > >
> >>> > >
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> >>> > >
> >>>
> >>>
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