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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
I like the vertical give me a little more head room.
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:34:24 -0500
"Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cool! I use autocad too! You can make the drawing with
>the thickness. Only the hull with view ports and hatch.
>You can ad intern part only if they ad to the overall
>strengt of the hull.
>
>How many of you out there like more the horizontal vs
>vertical design? Please vote!
>
>Ian, are you still there? Can you give the basic hull
>dim?
>
>Pierre Poulin
>"forgot cat outside yesterday, must go petshop today"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Thijs Struijs" <thijs-struijs@planet.nl>
>>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
>>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:50:58 +0100
>>
>>Pierre,
>>
>>That would be great! I can make a 3D autocad drawing of
>>the design. Eighter
>>as a solid shape or with the actual materialthicknesses.
>>I can draw the
>>different parts in different layers, you say it and i
>>will send them as you
>>wish.
>>
>>greatings,
>>
>>Thijs Struijs
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
>>To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:47 PM
>>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Alec.
>>>
>>> One of my friend work in a university here. The students
>>>he work with
>>made
>>a
>>> psub as there final project ( see
>>> http://www.imq.qc.ca/presse/Archives/p001120.htm )
>>>
>>> I can arrange with my friend and those student a
>>>computer simulation of
>>the
>>> design. I know they did it with there sub.
>>>
>>> What about that?
>>>
>>> Pierre Poulin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >From: "Alec Smyth" <Asmyth@changepoint.com>
>>> >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
>>> >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:17:22 -0500
>>> >
>>> >Here's a typical lesson I learned when I went from a
>>>submarine project
>>in
>>> >my CAD software to a submarine project in my garage. My
>>>original design
>>> >called for an endcap on the stern, I think it was 30.5"
>>>in diameter or
>>> >something like that. When I went to order it, they
>>>quoted me $4,160 for
>>a
>>> >single endcap, of which $4,000 was the setup cost and
>>>$160 the
>>production
>>> >cost. The $4,000 was because my dimensions were not
>>>standard. But if I
>>> >adjusted my design by half an inch, the cost was just
>>>$160.
>>> >
>>> >You'll find standard dimensions in references like the
>>>Pressure Vessel
>>> >Handbook (or some European equivalent). It doesn't hurt
>>>to talk to the
>>> >manufacturers, they are very helpful indeed. After all
>>>you're the
>>customer
>>> >and they want to sell.
>>> >
>>> >If someone on the list can run a finite element
>>>analysis on the design
>>with
>>> >the viewport seats through the endcap flanges, and they
>>>can be designed
>>> >with a good safety margin, I'm all for a vertical
>>>saucer design. Voila,
>>an
>>> >instant pressure hull.
>>> >
>>> >rgds,
>>> >
>>> >Alec
>>> >
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: Thijs Struijs [mailto:thijs-struijs@planet.nl]
>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:43 PM
>>> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Pierre,
>>> >
>>> >Good idea for the OSS pressure hull.
>>> >
>>> >These endcaps can be bought. There are probably some
>>>standard
>>dimensions
>>> >because they need special tools to make them. At this
>>>moment i did not
>>> >contact any manufacturers at all because when i do, i
>>>want to know what
>>i
>>> >am
>>> >talking about. You don't get a second chance meeting
>>>someone for the
>>firts
>>> >time. I do know there are standard relations between
>>>diameter and
>>radii.
>>> >For
>>> >more information you can have a look at these websites:
>>> >
>>> >http://www.bakertankhead.com/products.htm (USA)
>>> >
>>> >http://www.afflerbach.de/html/default.htm (Germany)
>>> >
>>> >http://www.antonius.nl/antonius/home/products.asp?lang=English
>>> >(Netherlands)
>>> >
>>> >Greetings,
>>> >
>>> >Thijs Struijs
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: "Pierre Poulin" <pipo305@hotmail.com>
>>> >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:47 PM
>>> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] OSS (Pressure hull)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Hey, OSS group!
>>> > >
>>> > > How about using that hull for the project? It look
>>>simple and could
>>have
>>> >two
>>> > > persons side by side. Like the Cousteau thing.
>>> > >
>>> > > Also, are those end-caps available or do you have to
>>>build them from
>>> > > scratch?
>>> > >
>>> > > Bye, Bye!
>>> > >
>>> > > Pierre Poulin
>>> > > "I'm skating instead of diving!"
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > >From: "Alec Smyth" <Asmyth@changepoint.com>
>>> > > >Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>> > > >To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>>> > > >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull
>>> > > >Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 16:42:50 -0500
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Thijs,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >I love the simplicity of a hull made from simply
>>>two endcaps. I
>>thought
>>> > > >mine would be simple enough as it is basically a
>>>reinforced pipe,
>>yet
>>> > > >welding two elliptical heads like this would have
>>>saved me at least
>>6
>>> > > >months work, or more. The reason is you would not
>>>have to contend
>>with
>>> >a
>>> > > >cylinder which is never quite round when you
>>>receive it, and
>>getting
>>> >round
>>> > > >rings into an oval cylinder was the hardest thing
>>>on the whole
>>project
>>> >so
>>> > > >far. The part I would worry about is that you have
>>>inserts that
>>cross
>>> >the
>>> > > >join between the two halves. Not that it can't be
>>>done, but it
>>> >introduces
>>> > > >what to me at any rate are unknowns in the stress
>>>calculations. I
>>try
>>> >to
>>> > > >use only things that I can calculate.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Besides Cousteau's saucer, there is another sub out
>>>there based on
>>this
>>> > > >principle of joining two elliptical heads.
>>>Unfortunately I can't
>>recall
>>> >its
>>> > > >name, but I remember seeing a picture of it online
>>>somewhere,
>>hanging
>>> >from
>>> > > >a crane and painted white and orange. If anyone can
>>>recall the sub
>>I'm
>>> > > >referring to, you might find it a neat idea. What
>>>they did was
>>incline
>>> >the
>>> > > >"saucer". It was oriented in a horizontal plane
>>>like Cousteau's,
>>except
>>> >it
>>> > > >was also inclined "up hill" about 30-45 degrees.
>>>While this might
>>seem
>>> >odd,
>>> > > >they also had an exostructure that faired it. The
>>>lower head had
>>two
>>> >bubble
>>> > > >windows facing forward, but as the saucer was
>>>inclined, these two
>>> >windows
>>> > > >did not have to cross the weld between the two
>>>heads. The occupants
>>> > > >traveled lying down and the hatch was of course on
>>>the upper shell.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >rgds,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Alec
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > >From: Thijs Struijs
>>>[mailto:thijs-struijs@planet.nl]
>>> > > >Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 12:02 PM
>>> > > >To: PSUBS
>>> > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pressure hull
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >To all,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >I would like some reactions on a drawing i made a
>>>while ago. You
>>can
>>> >find
>>> > > >it at:
>>> >http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20030126.073208/doubleXendXcapX.jpg
>>> > > >.
>>> > > >The idea is to construct a very simple pressure
>>>hull out of two
>>> > > >torispherical endcaps. The conning "tower" is made
>>>out of a
>>standard
>>> >line
>>> > > >pipe with a little overdimensioned wallthickness
>>>and the smallest
>>> >possible
>>> > > >diameter. The endcaps are made with a small
>>>cilindrical section on
>>it
>>> >but
>>> >i
>>> > > >am afraid that the tower will intersect with the
>>>torispherical
>>part.
>>> > > >In order to keep it simple i chose a very common
>>>steel for the
>>endcaps.
>>> >It
>>> > > >is P265GH (yield strenght 265 n/mm^2, 38500 psi,
>>>tensile strenght
>>410
>>> > > >n/mm^2, 59500 psi). This is an "off the shelf"
>>>material at
>>Afflerbach,
>>> >the
>>> > > >german manufacturer. I think you could call it soft
>>>boiler steel.
>>> > > >To calculate the strenght of it (apart from the
>>>conningtower and
>>> >viewports)
>>> > > >one can use the formulas for a sphere, using the
>>>dishing radius of
>>the
>>> > > >endcap (in this case 1040 mm). Maybe it is my age,
>>>to much alcohol
>>or
>>> >lack
>>> > > >of intelligence but watever method i use (ABS,
>>>Lloyd's or an old
>>> >pressure
>>> > > >vessel codebook) i get different outcommings. Can
>>>anyone of you say
>>> > > >something sensible on this? I am considdering a
>>>wallthickness of 12
>>mm,
>>> > > >divingdepth 100 mtr?
>>> > > >If it is ever going to be build it will be tested
>>>unmanned to a
>>depth
>>> >50%
>>> > > >more than its safe working depth. Should it
>>>collapse i will hold no
>>one
>>> > > >responsible for that. So please be free to give
>>>your advise.
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Thank you very much,
>>> > > >
>>> > > >Thijs Struijs
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>> > >
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