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Re: Fw: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
All,
To clarify; my use of the word "you" addressed the person named in some
instances; and meant "you guys", "they", or "others" when used in
generality. Please don't let me be misunderstood.
Thanks,
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Captain Nemo" <vulcania@hawaii.rr.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> Doc and Carsten,
>
> I like your way of looking at it, Doc. Makes sense. I've got to admit,
> though; and without meaning to offend anybody; I have some concerns over
> who'd edit and compile such a reference manual. I think that should be
done
> by people who have real experience in homebuilt subs, and the PSUBS
> webmeisters don't.
>
> On another point: the last thing I want to see is any group like this one
> (again, comprised mainly of non-subbers) establishing the idea that
> homebuilt submarines should comply with ABS, PVHO, et al. Whereas I
> recognize the sensibility of emulating basic proven designs, this
> inclination towards "commercial standards" could get out of hand if a
> regulatory agency sees it as the general opinion of the homebuilt
submarine
> community, and decides to impose them on everyone. That would bring an
end
> to most all experimental homebuilt submersibles presently being developed
in
> the private sector. For example, most of us can't afford the cost of
X-ray
> inspections: this would put us out of business, no matter how long we've
> been welding, or how clean our beads are.
>
> There have always been separate camps represented on this website:
> commercial subbers; experienced homebuilt subbers; and aspiring homebuilt
> subbers. The needs of each group are unique unto themselves. Any manual
> seeking to support the homebuilt submarine enthusiast needs to recognize
our
> differences as well as our common bonds. I would resist anything that
might
> eventually result in the legislative imposition of commercial standards on
> homebuilt submarines; and it seems to me that what some of you guys are
> suggesting could be heading in that direction.
>
> Also, I am vigorously opposed to the concept that any working homebuilt
sub
> not meeting someone else's personal criteria should be "banished to the
> cornfield". That kind of censorship is just too dictatorial for me. All
> existing sub projects should be available to public display; good or bad,
> there's something to be learned from all of them.
>
> Additionally, this movement to provide a generic model so the "newbie"
can
> achieve a safe submarine for his own enjoyment is, again, (IMOHO) an
attempt
> at reinventing the wheel. Instead of creating your own knock-off model
based
> on Captain George's designs, why don't you just cut to the chase and tell
> them to buy a set of Kitteredge plans, then? You'd save yourself a lot of
> time and trouble; and wouldn't be ripping the Captain off, either.
>
> And to answer in public a question that was posed to me offline, but which
I
> feel should be addressed here: I am a subber, not a PSUB'er. To me, PSUBS
> is like a "brand name" associated with this website. I and other people I
> know were "subbers" long before this website came to be. As an analogy:
> those I've known who design and build their own personal motorcycles are
not
> "PBIKers", we are just plain "bikers". Accordingly, when I use the term
> "subber", I speak of a longstanding global brotherhood of submarine
> enthusiasts not limited to an affiliation with this particular website
> alone. Hope that clears up any unexpressed questions about my use of
that
> term.
>
> Pat
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doc" <doc@bionicdolphin.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
>
>
> > Hi Carsten,
> >
> > I think you've got a point. Perhaps instead of a "How to" book it
should
> be a "Where to" reference manual.
> > I know that when designing the Bionic Dolphin, I searched high and low
for
> reference material.
> > A one stop beginner's source book, like this group is becoming, could
> provide all the information
> > to safely design, build and operate a Psub and eliminate any personal
> liability from the contributors.
> > All the information is out there, it just needs to be compiled into one
> starting place.
> >
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > Carsten Standfuss wrote:
> >
> > > > first of all and above, all subers should be certified divers, not
> only it is a good start for those who wish to travel under the water but
> also with all the basics,
> > > > many questions on this forum would not have been even asked by
> certified divers.
> > > > Herve
> > >
> > > Hi - my two cents.
> > >
> > > Herve is right - for the reason thats the most Psubs are in a
divedepths
> > > were a dive exit can be survived -
> > > Psubers should have Scuba dive expirence. Also a dive course give you
> > > the expierence about human bodys
> > > under pressure..., under bouancy, under water..
> > >
> > > No need to find new rules - ABS, PVHO, GL, LRs etc based mostly on
> > > expirence.
> > > Just purchase the books and decide foryourself what is useful for a
> > > small sub and what not.
> > >
> > > But a basic example calculation with drawings - made from somebody how
> > > has allready build
> > > at least one usefull selfdesigned subs will help much more.
> > >
> > > Also a short list of absolut nessesary requirements can be displayed
> > > here on psubs - like :
> > >
> > > A Psub should have :
> > >
> > > - A drop weight
> > > - A hatch which can be easy open from both sides
> > > - A scuba gear for each person
> > > - A lifesupport system according to classification rules
> > > - A security Diver(s) during the first test dive.
> > > - A calculation of weight, bouancy and trim
> > > - A .. maybe some other points - but not to much.
> > >
> > > Boats which not fullfill (most) of this basic rules or equal solutions
> > > should not to be displayed on the Psubs Picture Gallery.. or even on a
> > > convention..
> > >
> > > - A Sub with propane in her softanks should be - blown..
> > >
> > > Carsten
>
>