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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
Hi All,
I want you all to know that I am not offering this lightly. But, if we did
decide to publish a guidline for construction of a Personal Submersible I
would be happy to offer my Webmaster skills and web space at compustyle.net
(free-of-charge) if we decided to make the book available online.
I understand Cliff's point about ABS and Lloyds being the recognized
standard, and that seems absolutely necessary. But, I wonder if -
considering the difference in audience and scope a book for PSUBers would
encompass - it might be best to come up with a reference of our own. Not
one that would become a cage to keep inventive minds working in a box, but,
one that would, as mentioned before, show the world our committment to
safety and help the would-be PSUBer and veteran alike.
I haven't thought through the best way to go with the publication of such a
book, i.e. have it printed and charge a nominal fee to purchase it, or, in
the spirit of the free sharing of info, make it available online. But if it
comes to it, I would be excited to offer some of my time and web space to
the project.
Thanks to all you guys for a fantastic start down the path to the deep!
Bob T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Keefer" <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> Hi All,
>
>
> > From: "Cliff Redus" <dr_redus@devtex.net>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> > Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:44:37 -0500
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > X-Priority: 3
> > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
> >
> > Ray, why reinvent the wheel in developing a PSUB specification book.?
ABS
> > and Lloyds are recognized standards to design and build to. If you
can't
> > afford the price for full certification, which is probably the case for
most
> > of us, then you can at least adhere to the design guidelines.
>
> Always my personal intent. However some of the questions that have lately
been
> coming over the alias from persons who say they know what they are doing
> are really scary. After they fish some what-a-be Nemo from the bottom and
> find a printout from personal_submersibles@psubs.org in their shop we
> are going to get creamed. Maybe not through legistration but certainly a
> civil suite of some sort.
>
> In the book where appropiate I would just reference section so-and-so of
ABS...
> My intent is not to reinvent the wheel. It is to collect the references
> in one place that a newby can follow with enough detail to be able to
build
> something.
>
> Pat was concerned about rigid specifications to lock in an inventive
designer.
> That is not what I am after. I am after a minimum set of requirements to
> keep a newby safe and to build a minimal sub. If someone deviates from the
> book then they are beyond our recomendations. If it works then good. If
not,
> then they had purposely ignored our advice.
>
> >
> > A more useful approach to newbies would be to develop a defacto standard
by
> > posting at PSUBS detailed engineering plans, that include calculations,
> > drawings and documentation of a rock-solid simple design similar to say
the
> > K-350. The level of documentation I am referring to would be equivalent
to
> > that which would be required by ABS certification. For those only
interest
> > in building, they could go right to fabrication from these plans. For
those
> > interested in designing their own, they would at least have a solid
starting
> > point and would see the level of analysis necessary to design a safe
boat.
> > The problem newbies have is they are starting from a black piece of
paper!
> > The problem as always is, where do you get the PSUBS plans.
>
> I have a set of the K-350 plans. They say this piece of metal, of this
> type and shape goes here. They do not give any background mathmatics or
> reasons why it IS this type of steel or shape. A newby would have to
follow
> the plans on blind faith with no real understanding as to how the sub is
> designed.
>
> I look at the ABS standard and it lays out requirements but doesn't
> always state how to meet them. For instance it doesn't mention how to
> set up an air cleaning system. Just states the standards you need to
maintain.
>
>
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ray Keefer" <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>
> > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 3:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
> >
> >
> > > Ok,
> > >
> > > So how to proceed? Do we need to make and official PSUBS spec? Like
> > > along the lines of the ABS book we all love?
> > >
> > > I see Doc's, Pat's and Doug's comments combined into the Introduction.
> > > But where to go from there? With our limited resources can we really
> > > put the research needed to produce an accurate book? Still I am game,
> > > after the convention, to take a shot. Below are suggested chapters.
> > > The content of which can be filled out as we proceed.
> > >
> > > Any other chapters you would like? Better Arrangement?
> > >
> > >
> > > Title: How to PSUBS
> > > Publisher: www.psubs.org
> > >
> > > Chapters:
> > > Introduction
> > > Part I: General Background
> > > 1. Water Physics
> > > 2. Human Physiology
> > > 3. Scuba Certification
> > > 4. Cabin Air
> > > 5. Compressed Gasses
> > > 6. Piping Standards
> > > 7. Welding Standards
> > > 8. Life Support
> > > 9. Compensation
> > > 10. Batteries
> > > 11. Internal Combustion Engines
> > > 12. Thrusters
> > > 13. Ambient verses 1 ATM Design Considerations
> > > 14. Stability: Static
> > > 15. Stability: Dynamic
> > > 16. Altitude Diving
> > > 17. Safety
> > > 18. Documentation
> > > 19. Training
> > > 20. Maintenance
> > > 21. Certification
> > > 22. Insurance
> > > Part II: Ambient Design Details
> > > 1. Hull Shapes
> > > 2. Hull Material
> > > 3. Hatches and Entrances
> > > 4. View Ports
> > > 5. Compensation for Neutral Bouyancy
> > > Part III: 1 ATM Design Details
> > > 1. Pressure Hull Shapes
> > > 2. Pressure Hull Material
> > > 2. End caps
> > > 3. Hatches
> > > 4. View Ports
> > > 5. Pressure Hull Calculations
> > > 6. Through Hulls: Mechanical
> > > 7. Through Hulls: Electrical
> > > 8. Through Hulls: Other
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ray
> > >
> >
>
> This issue has been kind of fun. On one hand it has been "we need to be
> self regulating before the government does it to us" On the other,
> "we need to protect the newbies, or at least protect ourselves from the
> newbies". On the third hand, "don't do anything to limit me". Hmmm, out of
> hands.
>
> Funny how every major topic that comes up in PSUBS gets a gamit of
opposing
> opinions. :)
>
> As for actually doing the book I don't know. I am getting burned out with
> the Convention with a lot of my time and money going into it. A lot of
> other projects are faultering around the farm.
>
> Regards,
> Ray
>