Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE

[Ray Keefer <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>]

Hi All,


> From: "Cliff Redus" <dr_redus@devtex.net>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] SUBSAFE
> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 18:44:37 -0500
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> 
> Ray, why reinvent the wheel in developing a PSUB specification book.?  ABS
> and Lloyds are recognized standards to design and build to.  If you can't
> afford the price for full certification, which is probably the case for most
> of us, then you can at least adhere to the design guidelines.

Always my personal intent. However some of the questions that have lately been
coming over the alias from persons who say they know what they are doing
are really scary. After they fish some what-a-be Nemo from the bottom and
find a printout from personal_submersibles@psubs.org in their shop we
are going to get creamed. Maybe not through legistration but certainly a
civil suite of some sort. 

In the book where appropiate I would just reference section so-and-so of ABS...
My intent is not to reinvent the wheel. It is to collect the references
in one place that a newby can follow with enough detail to be able to build
something.

Pat was concerned about rigid specifications to lock in an inventive designer.
That is not what I am after. I am after a minimum set of requirements to
keep a newby safe and to build a minimal sub. If someone deviates from the
book then they are beyond our recomendations. If it works then good. If not,
then they had purposely ignored our advice.

> 
> A more useful approach to newbies would be to develop a defacto standard by
> posting at PSUBS detailed engineering plans, that include calculations,
> drawings and documentation of a rock-solid simple design similar to say the
> K-350.  The level of documentation I am referring to would be equivalent to
> that which would be required by ABS certification.  For those only interest
> in building, they could go right to fabrication from these plans.  For those
> interested in designing their own, they would at least have a solid starting
> point and would see the level of analysis necessary to design a safe boat.
> The problem newbies have is they are starting from a black piece of paper!
> The problem as always is, where do you get the PSUBS plans.

I have a set of the K-350 plans. They say this piece of metal, of this
type and shape goes here. They do not give any background mathmatics or
reasons why it IS this type of steel or shape. A newby would have to follow
the plans on blind faith with no real understanding as to how the sub is
designed.

I look at the ABS standard and it lays out requirements but doesn't
always state how to meet them. For instance it doesn't mention how to 
set up an air cleaning system. Just states the standards you need to maintain.


> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Keefer" <Ray.Keefer@Sun.COM>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
> 
> 
> > Ok,
> >
> > So how to proceed? Do we need to make and official PSUBS spec? Like
> > along the lines of the ABS book we all love?
> >
> > I see Doc's, Pat's and Doug's comments combined into the Introduction.
> > But where to go from there? With our limited resources can we really
> > put the research needed to produce an accurate book? Still I am game,
> > after the convention, to take a shot. Below are suggested chapters.
> > The content of which can be filled out as we proceed.
> >
> > Any other chapters you would like? Better Arrangement?
> >
> >
> > Title: How to PSUBS
> > Publisher: www.psubs.org
> >
> > Chapters:
> >     Introduction
> >     Part I: General Background
> > 1. Water Physics
> > 2. Human Physiology
> > 3. Scuba Certification
> > 4. Cabin Air
> > 5. Compressed Gasses
> > 6. Piping Standards
> > 7. Welding Standards
> > 8. Life Support
> > 9. Compensation
> > 10. Batteries
> > 11. Internal Combustion Engines
> > 12. Thrusters
> > 13. Ambient verses 1 ATM Design Considerations
> > 14. Stability: Static
> > 15. Stability: Dynamic
> > 16. Altitude Diving
> > 17. Safety
> > 18. Documentation
> > 19. Training
> > 20. Maintenance
> > 21. Certification
> > 22. Insurance
> >     Part II: Ambient Design Details
> >     1. Hull Shapes
> >     2. Hull Material
> >     3. Hatches and Entrances
> >     4. View Ports
> >     5. Compensation for Neutral Bouyancy
> >     Part III: 1 ATM Design Details
> > 1. Pressure Hull Shapes
> > 2. Pressure Hull Material
> > 2. End caps
> > 3. Hatches
> > 4. View Ports
> > 5. Pressure Hull Calculations
> > 6. Through Hulls: Mechanical
> > 7. Through Hulls: Electrical
> > 8. Through Hulls: Other
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ray
> >
> 

This issue has been kind of fun. On one hand it has been "we need to be
self regulating before the government does it to us" On the other, 
"we need to protect the newbies, or at least protect ourselves from the
newbies". On the third hand, "don't do anything to limit me". Hmmm, out of
hands.

Funny how every major topic that comes up in PSUBS gets a gamit of opposing
opinions. :)

As for actually doing the book I don't know. I am getting burned out with
the Convention with a lot of my time and money going into it. A lot of 
other projects are faultering around the farm.

Regards,
Ray