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Fw: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
Title: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:SUBSAFE
 
 
It is true that an increasing number of tech divers 
die, the reason being the increasing number of tech divers or so called. I am 
happy that Dam brought up this subject because it is a good example of what 
could happen with  psubers.
Tech diving was "self regulated" for a long 
time with only a limited of highly experienced divers who dared the 
venture.
Today with the diversity of new 
equipment beginners to tech diving may not know their limits or the real 
dangers and unfortunately , sometimes pay the ultimate price.
You can even find plans to make home made 
rebreathers over internet ! 
Intrusive regulations in that case would mean to 
protect the divers against themselves. and to ensure that the diver is really 
qualified. 
Here at psubs, there 
are 2 issues , not 1, the safety of the psuber of course and most the safety of 
others.
There ARE incidents outhere, most of the time 
it is covered up, but it happens, I have seen a battery bank on fire in a large 
tourists sub, explosions in battery box, flood of a small sub (submersion with 
hatch still opened, yes!!!), and so on...
never heard of fatality or somebody hurt 
though.
Safety records are good because of the limited 
numbers of psubs, skilled constructors, and cost of construction which 
discourage lousy ideas.
Comparison with an experimental aircraft is not 
entirely accurate because in case of catastrophic failure the exp aircraft 
eventually will  crash on the ground and somebody might get hurt, in case 
of catastrophic failure in a psub, the operator is going down without 
hurting anybody outside. and it does not make the head lines.
So lets keep our subs safe for ourselves and 
everybody around, 
ABS, USCG, and others have extensive 
litterature , i dont think PSUBS needs to create another standard, but here 
"wilde" designs which include dangerous components, no matter HOW they are 
arranged, should be just rejected.
nobody uses CO2, propane, H2.
why even bother with posts on nuclear reactor 
in psubs! come on be real.
Any constructor shouldv Try to eliminate what 
can go wrong rather than assuming that it will be ok.
I have to face almost every month inquiries from 
law enforcement agencies because of threats of underwater attack, we are not far 
from new regulations specially if an idiot somewhere wants to 
revolutionize submaking with dangerous ideas.
Now for desert, when i read on the posts that a 6th 
grade is enough to build a $2M deep sub, hence who said that never got to 6th 
grade and / or does not have 2 nickels to rub together since he 's never 
got to have a sub .
Herve
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  
  
  Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 11:53 
PM
  Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 
  Re:SUBSAFE
  
To All current and aspiring Psub builders and operators,
I 
  think SAFETY and PRUDENCE are very important points that should be really 
  taken to heart. As "Tech" divers kill themselves in ever increasing numbers, 
  that sport moves closer to more intrusive regulation. If we all had to certify 
  our subs with ABS (at$10,000.00 to $20,000.00 a throw) and operate under 
  expanded U.S. Coast Guard regulations, How long do you think this would be a 
  viable sport? We don't have the membership base to create a DEMA or an EAA. We 
  could easily be regulated right out of existance. Private aviation is a 
  perfect example. If the EAA hadn't lobbied for the Experimental class, How 
  many people could afford to own a plane of the  FAA certified type?( ie 
  Cessna ,Piper etc) you get the point . I am new to the Psub website but not 
  new to sub building and pressure vessels. I have 23 years experience as a 
  Boilermaker. I am not bringing this point up to be arrogant or condecending, I 
  am bringing it up because as i look thru the archives and read the current 
  chat some of it it very  unsettling. Example:"Using A36 Steel for a sub 
  pressure hull " a definate no no. That person needs to do some more homework. 
  I fully realize that alot of the chatter is just idle fantasy and will 
  probably never be acted upon, thats ok, thats what life is all about. But if 
  the 1% or 2% of the scary ideas are carried out. That worries Me . I have a 
  sizeable investment in my sub and i would like to use it for more than a shop 
  ornament. 
 If your thinking of building a sub read  " Manned 
  Submersibles", ABS or Loylds of London (Rules for submersibles and diving 
  systems) , and ASME manuals for PVHO. If you find some or all of this 
  information overwhelming seek out someone who does understand it and FOLLOW 
  their advice.  If you don't, you can and will get hurt and also ruin it 
  for the rest of us! Just because you can cobble something together to save 
  money doesn't mean you should.
Well enough ranting, I am by no means an 
  expert but if someone needs help i would happy to help them or steer them in 
  the direction of somebody who can. Small Manned Submersibles have had a good 
  safety record up till now, let's keep it that way!
Dam Lance