[PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site

Wed Jun 28 17:14:19 EDT 2023

Thank Carsten !
Very , very well said !

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023, 2:53 PM MerlinSub at t-online.de via
Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:

> I do not know much about Karls sub.
>
>
>
> But I know a lot about my subs. And a lot of other people self build
> subs.
>
>
>
> Euronaut is build to class rules, to Germanischer Lloyd, Swiss Lloyds and
> ASME code from 1987.
>
> Is it classed ? No it is not. It  is x-rayed - yes it is. Did I use
> certified Material for the pressure hull steel and windows ? - Yes I Do.
>
> Did I listen to other people during the construction? Yes I do - one
> reason I am in the Psubs group by the way..
>
> And one reason the sub was much more expensive than calculate in the
> begining.
>
>
>
> Did ever a class inspector see the vessel - no. Did it have more backup
> systems than class required - yes it has.
>
>
>
> Would class accept my sub if  I put the money for them in - no the would
> not - some equipment is second hand without
>
> papers like the diesel engine, the electric motor and most of th aviation
> gauges, intercom and so on.
>
>
>
> But do I ever carry paying guest to make money? - No never. For this
> purpose you can rent a classed tourist submarine.
>
>
>
> Over the years we found that some class rules are to expensive for small
> private build and owned sub. Technical and cost overkill.
>
> So I write a simpler form of class rules to adoped for smaller vessels
> (Psubs)  - but not for passenger vessels.
>
> (and not for the US-market for insurance reasons)
>
>
>
> But this is not the point. If the titan vessel has class or not is not
> important to me.
>
> If a inpector see the vessel or not - is not important to me.
>
>
>
> For me is important:
>
>
>
> - Has he an hatch to escape a smoke or fire on the surface?
>
> - Can the boat surface fully on it own?
>
> - Has he a backup ROV on the Mothership or another submarine incase of an
> emergency in such heavy deeps were nobody can help him?
>
> - Is the hull proper tested?
>
> - Has it a proper navigation and comunication system?
>
> - Has the designrr listen to the white old man's with over 30-40 years
> expirence in these field? Or did he ignore he some or all advices?
>
> - And so on ..
>
>
>
> For me he was looking for the cheapest way to get rich people to the
> titanic.
>
> This 19 year old son was not killed by a submarine acciedent- he was
> killed by a white old man ignorance..
>
> He was afraid about this sub and dont want to get in - what did say say to
> make him get in?
>
>
>
> PS : I dont care about the controller either.
>
>
>
> Carsten
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Titan submersible missing at Titanic site
>
> Datum: 2023-06-24T19:38:39+0200
>
> Von: "Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
> An: "Personal Submersibles General Discussion" <
> personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> How do you know Idabel is built mostly to ABS rules?  Because Stanley says
> so?
>
> As I used to tell Will Kohnen, there are only two kinds of submarines in
> the world; certified and non-certified.  If a sub is not certified it
> doesn't matter what they are used for, what they carry, or how deep they
> dive; you do not know and cannot say with certainty whether it meets ABS
> standards regardless of who fabricated it.  A non-certified vessel built by
> the best submarine builder in the world cannot be proven to be any more in
> compliance with ABS standards than the psubber that builds a non-certified
> K350 in their backyard.  It is the certification that proves compliance to
> standards and that makes all non-certified submarines equal.  I think we
> may all agree there can be obvious signs of an unsafe vessel, however in
> totality the concept of how "safe" a non-certified submarine is, is
> subjective.
>
> I don't have anything against Stanley and am not suggesting he be reigned
> in, however Sean has asked a perfectly reasonable question and I think
> before we start holding anyone accountable for the Titan loss we need to
> know whether the industry is going to endorse double standards or hold
> everyone to the same standard.
>
> Bringing the question back to you...take out the personalities,
> friendships, and acquaintances...look only at the facts...there is a
> non-certified submarine taking passengers-for-hire to a depth of 3000 feet
> in an unsupervised environment.  Does PSUBS have a responsibility to
> petition ABS or the courts to intervene and stop the operation because it
> might be unsafe?
>
> Jon
>
>
> On Saturday, June 24, 2023 at 12:10:28 PM EDT, hank pronk via
> Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Sean raises a good point.  There is however a big difference.  Karl’s sub
> is built mostly to ABS rules and at least to standard engineering
> guidelines.  My issue is not with being classed.  Classing a sub does not
> make it safer, it just proves it is safe.  The boiler plate waiver would
> apply and be sufficient in Karl’s case.
> Hank
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> 
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