[PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
Alan via Personal_Submersibles
personal_submersibles at psubs.org
Sun Jul 26 11:57:20 EDT 2015
Ken,
you are saying the LED operates from 21 to 45 volts.
If we had a switch that switched between 24 & 36 volts in the hull,
& an IC that detected the difference in the light housing,
then we wouldn't need an extra wire / pin to initiate a change
from 5000 to 10000 lumens.
cheers Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 27/07/2015, at 1:39 am, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Sean,
>
> There will not be any change in the LED intensity as long as the input voltage is between 21.6 volts and 45 volts. We will tightly regulate the current into the LED array.
>
> Noise on the power input may not be a problem within certain limits since the input EMI filter will handle a fair amount of noise.
>
> If your slip rings break the power flow the light will continue to operate for about 3 to 8 milliseconds or less. It won’t be damaged or degraded. Might get some interesting current surges though.
>
> Can’t make a statement about the commercial drivers since some of them are low quality (they still mostly work).
>
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Sean T. Stevenson via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:52 AM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> How sensitive are LED drivers to supply voltage stability? If I were to, for example, feed the LED light with 24 VDC that must first pass through a set of electrical slip rings, would any fluctuation in resistance or momentary interruption to the supply harm the light?
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On July 26, 2015 6:38:23 AM MDT, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Basically that’s the same for this light except it will shut off until it cools down, take a look at the spec.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On B! ehalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:21 PM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
> Thanks for that info Hugh.
> This extract from a manual below, is for a 700lm light. So heating as you say will be a big issue.
> How hard is thermal rollback Ken???.....
> General Notes and Warnings The Nano SeaLite can be run in air, but will go into thermal rollback, where its light output diminishes to protect the light from overheating. This is normal and purposely designed to protect the LEDs from being damaged by excess heat buildup while running in air. The light will return to full brightness once it is submerged in water or it’s allowed to cool down. This thermal rollback will not happen when light is being operated in water under normal usage. WARNING When the Nano SeaLite is operated in air the body may reach temperatures in excess of 65° C. These temperatures may be enough to cause burns if the light is handled without protective clothing.
> Alan
>
>
> From: Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 12:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
>
> 40 degrees gives you 30 degrees
> 120 degrees! gives you 80 degrees
> It doesn’t matter whether acrylic, Glass or borosilicate with flat planes.
> The only reservation on my lights is that I have not done a lens for the seawater to optimise angles etc. Also my reflector is round with a square LED.
> Looks great in the swimming pool at night but as I haven’t dived it I have no experience as to how it will look in the sea.
> With a really compact light and 94 watts of heat it is not going to last long in the air. It will need serious fins. Needs to be idiot proof.
> One thing is that it needs to have automatic dimming reduction for temperature so it does not desolder or destroy O⡍ rings etc.
> I will try and work out how the forum works and go to that. I could not get into it but could view it.
> Hugh
>
>
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 11:58 a.m.
> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion'
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> PS We are supposed to be discussing the LED light on the forum?
>
> ken
>
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Hugh Fulton via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 7:33 PM
> To: 'Personal Submersibles General Discussion' <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Re- Dimming.
> Would it not be better to have 2 switchable intensities rather than variable. Then you can have a 3 position switch. Is it simpler?
> Hugh
>
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Sunday, 26 July 2015 8:20 a.m.
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Yes we did but we had two members that were pushing hard for dimming. From feedback, we were two for and two against. I would prefer not have it but if it makes the lite more generally accepted, I am willing to incorporate it. This last version of suggestions are just that, suggestions. A understand that nothing is frozen and we still do not have final consensus.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Cliff,
>
> Dimming, I thought we deleted this?
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Saturday! , July 25, 2015 3:29 PM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Ken, I took you latest pass on spec and generated a one page summary.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 9:48 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> This light will require substantial cooling! . Total dissipation is about 94 watts.
>
> Puts out a lot of light.
>
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:18 AM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-M! AILIST] LED Lights
>
> Alan, my thinking is that with the flange, you could mount the light either way. On the new boat I am designing, I am planning a FRP recess so that outside of the flange is flush with the outside of the FRP shell. Would still need to cut a hole were the body passes through the FRP shell. Yes this does reduce the convection heat transfer from the light but I was thinking of leaving say a 3/8 clearance around the recessed flange. I don't see any problem with either approach to sealing on a MPB by using a neoprene flat gadget.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:58 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Cliff,
> I was thinking of fitting the light in to a bowl shaped
> recess in the fairing / ballast tank, whereas you were proposing
> cutting a hole out & fitting it in. In hindsight your idea is better
> because my idea would inhibit the heat dispersion due to the fiberglass
> surrounding the light fitting.
> Alan
>
> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles &! lt;personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Alan, I am visual kind of guy. Can send me sketch of what you are describing and we can talk.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 3:23 PM, Alan James via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Looks a good solid light Cliff.
> On looking at the perpendicular cable entry, I was thinking we
> need a back entry for the purposes of mounting in to a housing
> in the fairing as you have requested in your list.
> I am looking at mounting in to ballast tanks so will create the shape
> of the light in the molding to receive it. If there was a threaded
> extension on the back of the light it could slot through a hole & be secured
> with a nut. This would make it easier to seal off the ballast tanks in
> my situation.
> Alan
>
> From: Cliff Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Ken, if you go to Youtube and do a search on https://youtu.be/D7VnwODU7vk, or 5000 Lumen Bridgelux Vero 18 LED light, you will see a short video of the light.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Cliff,
>
> How do I look at them??
>
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 4:18 PM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Now that Jon has the forum site set up for the LED light project, my suggestion is to move the discussion to the forum site called out in Jon's email. BTW, I have uploaded to the site the wiring diagram and housing drawings for the 5000 Lumen light that was designed by the ME students I was mentoring last year.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
> Doing the dimming electrically is easy but the problem is the extra wiring and where do you mount the Potentiometer?
>
> We can include the wires in the cable for use as an option this also complicates the cabling. Instead of two wires we would require 4 wires.
>
>
> Personally I also like the dimming since it will extend the time you can use it out of the water. Anybody also like or dislike? Cliff would like to delete.
>
> You guys! be sure to keep reading the spec. it will have almost daily updates for a while.
>
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alan James via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 3:31 PM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Cliff, Ken,
> I like the dimming option. The 10,000 lumens may be too much light in
> some low visibility conditions where there is a lot of back scatter.
> The 5,000 lumen option may act like a fog light.
> Also I am thinking of having lights mounted to the side which may not
> need to be as intense.
> Depth rating.... looking at the drawings of various 10,000 meter light housings,
> it seems simple to achieve a reasonable depth without much more cost.
> Potting the board..... I would be careful about what was potted in case some of the
> components needed to get rid of a bit of heat.
> Mechanical housing..... ! with you on that one Cliff. Like the idea of the recessed light.
> Alan
>
> From: Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> To: Person! al Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 4:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Ken, good first pass at the specs. Below are comments. BTW, I will post these here as I have not been able to get the activation code back yet on registering at the forum.
>
> Item 2.1 DC Voltage. If it were me, I would stick with nominal battery bank voltages of 24 and 36 VDC. When I switch to MK 101 thrusters, I dropped my main battery bank voltage to 36VDC my instrumentation bus is 24VDC. Would need a single fuse holder to accept fuses to handle different nominal voltages.
>
> Item 4.0 Depth Requirement. In the spirit of keeping cost down, I think 500 meters (1640 ft) would be more than enough. I know Scott is designing a deep diving boat but is any one else shooting for more than 500m?
>
> 6.0 Dimming. I would omit the ability to dim the light. Yes I know it is easy from an electrical point of view but it forces us to go with more pins on the subsea connector. I am thinking on installing multiple lighs so I could just control on/off for each light. I could go either way on this but in the spirit of KISS, I vote to omit dimming.
>
> 8.3 Ports I would change plastic to acrylic. I don't think we will end up here but if we do, we can use PVHO flat view port calcs to size the acrylic lens.
>
> 9.0 Printed Wiring Boards. I really like the way the Minn-Kota motor controller PWBs are potted. Rather than using the spray on hydrophobic coatings, to me we should pot the board (accept for access to fuse). Therefore suggest changing the word coated to potted.
>
> 11.0 Mechanical Housing. I suggest. The LED panel light and PCB shall be contained in a single 1-atm flange mounted cylindrical housing with a low profile that can be recessed in a FRP shell with attachment screws from the rear of the flange. The housing should contain a single 29 LED Array rated at 10,000 lumens with a rated power of 91-140 lumens/W (109-71W). Mounting holes will be provided for an optional SS yoke style support bracket.
>
> Material: Hard anodized 6061-T6 or 7071-T6 TBD (I have a grey beard machinist friend that owns a machine shop. He loves 7071-T6 as it is a dream to machine and stronger than 6061-T6.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, Ken Martindale via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> Cost is critical. The electronics should be a small part of the cost. The housing might be the most expensive.
>
> Hope you guys are reading the specification.
>
> Ken
>
> From: Personal_Submersibles [mailto:personal_submersibles-bounces at psubs.org] On Behalf Of Clifford Redus via Personal_Submersibles
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2! 015 10:18 AM
> To: Personal Submersibles General Discussion <personal_submersibles at psubs.org>
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] LED Lights
>
> Jon, thanks for setting up the forum. I am assuming we can post files as well.
>
> &nb! sp;I agree low cost is important but having a functioning light is as well. OTS LED utility lights like that one you noted are not an option unless they can be potted. To me the best way to keep the cost low, is to publish construction drawings of a 1-atm DIY housing that a psubber could machine or have machined by a friend, and publish a design of a PCB that could be easily fabricated using one of the PCB online sites like ExperessPCB www.expresspcb.com and DIY populate the board. As a group, we design and build a prototype that I can test in my shop. If it works as designed, then we post to the psubs site a report, that includes the design drawings, circuit diagram, parts list and test results.
>
> Getting a consciences on the design spec is the first step.
>
> Cliff
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Jon Wallace via Personal_Submersibles <personal_submersibles at psubs.org> wrote:
>
> My three words of advice...cost, cost, cost.
>
> One measure of a success for this project will be how many people actually build/use it. If it costs more to manufacture than just purchasing something like http://www.surpluscenter.com/Electrical/Lights/DC-Mobile-Equipment-Lights/12-24-VDC-3120-LUMEN-16-LED-UTILITY-FLOOD-LIGHT-12-999-B.axd off the shelf then it's real world application by psubbers may be limited.
>
> Over-spec'ing the design above requirements for typical recreational operations (ie 10,000 psi capability) is likely going to drive up the cost. Also, let's remember that "cheap", "low cost", and "good price" are relative terms for a diverse group like PSUBS so include realistic estimates of parts and manufacturing especially if tooling is required.
>
> Jon
>
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