[PSUBS-MAILIST] New submarine

Wed Apr 9 10:06:51 EDT 2014

Scott,
Putting together a really cool shop is about as much fun as  building a 
sub. And you can't let a facility like that go to waste.  Roll  on!
Jim

In a message dated 4/9/2014 8:38:24 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
swaters at waters-ks.com writes:

The good thing is I have a very capable shop now days. With every  process 
of welding available, robotic plasma cutting and design software, a  8,000 
crain/lift, metal lathe, hydrolic ban saw with coolant, and about  every tool 
anyone could want, it makes life a lot easier. When I started my  K-350 
back 5 years ago I was a kid with a set of blue prints and a goal of one  day 
having a submarine and that's it. I didn't know anything about submarines  
besides they used "ballast" to go up and down. I didn't know how to weld at  
all or even knew what a metal lathe was. And the only tools I had was a small 
 tool bag with basic stuff my dad had given me from our family hardware 
store  as a graduation present. The reason I don't want to build a 1000' sub is 
it is  not a big enough goal. I need something that is the difficulty level 
of  starting with nothing and no idea to a k-350. I compare a k-350 to a 
1000m  (3300') sub with completely capable manipulator and tooling with very 
advanced  technology to be a similar difficulty level and step. I also want 
to push the  envelope for psubs about what we are capable of. Combined we 
have so much  knowledge that if we all worked together, we could be  producing 
ideas and inventions right up there with the big dogs.  Hope this helps with 
everyone understanding my vision

Thanks,
Scott Waters

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New  submarine
From: hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ 
(mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >
Date:  Wed, April 09, 2014 5:42 am
To: Personal Submersibles General  Discussion
<_personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ (mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org) 
>

You can not make a comparison between what Karl built and what  Scott wants 
to build.  The two subs are totally different.  I  could see building 
Scott's dream sub for 125K if you have your own   pressure vessel fab shop.  
(maybe)  Otherwise it just isn't  realistic for that cost.  
I  do not mean to imply that Scott or any other psub builder can not build  
a k3000.  As a matter of fact with the proper budget and realistic  
assessment of your abilities we can all do it.  
Hank

On Wednesday, April 9, 2014 5:06:52 AM,  James Frankland 
<_jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com_ (mailto:jamesf at guernseysubmarine.com) >  wrote:

Scott,
Have a look at this. As long as your a student of something,  somewhere, 
your ok.  Join a local tiddlywinks class or something.

http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/inventor-professional

This is not too difficult to use.
Regards
James

On 9 April 2014 04:09, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:

I will do the work myself, and not hire it out professionally. I  built my 
K-350 and it was $40,000 after all the gadgets were put in and I  hired out 
alot of work because I didn't know how to do it at the time. I  did a 
comparative analysis on weight to dollar. My K-350 at $40,000 and  4,500 lbs is 
comparative ofa 10,500 lb sub would be $93,333 if you add  more for acrylic 
costs my rough math seems to jive with the  $125,000. 

Thanks,
Scott Waters

Sent from my U.S.  Cellular© Smartphone

hank pronk <_hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca_ (mailto:hanker_20032000 at yahoo.ca) >  
wrote:

I think that is a dream guys, 125K no way.  Not if it is a  professional 
build, and it has to be.  If you do it right you can  spend that to do 1,000 
feet.  
Hank

On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 8:25:15 PM,  Douglas Suhr 
<_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ (mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >  wrote:

Wow! $125K for 2500 − 3000 feet? That's some serious  dollar-to-fathom 
value! 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:14 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:

$125,000 is reachable for me. Sounds like this could be a  reality.

Thanks,
Scott Waters

Sent from my U.S.  Cellular© Smartphone

Vance Bradley  <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) > wrote:

He said in an interview that Idabel cost $125,000.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2014, at 10:03 PM, Douglas Suhr <_spiritofcalypso at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:spiritofcalypso at gmail.com) >  wrote:

Scott, I have no experience with any large pressure  chambers, but I am 
sure you are talking well into the thousands  (perhaps $15,000 to $35,000) 
depending on how long it takes to set up  the required tests (and perform them). 

I truly admire your ambition, but like Hank suggested, 1000 feet  may be a 
better 2nd sub goal. If I were planning to go beyond 1000  feet, I would be 
looking to Nuytco, SeaMagine or Triton but of course  cost is then a major 
issue again. Does anyone know about how much Karl  spent building Idabel? ~ 
Douglas S. 

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 7:48 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:

Any idea as to the cost of pressure testing that kind of  pressure? 
Also, I am not a engineer, but am fairly good at designing  things in my 
head. If I designed this in CAD, does psubs have a good  way of sharing CAD 
files for who ever would like too look at my  designs and bounce ideas off of? 
I would love for this project to be a way for psubs to increase  overall 
psubs knowledge of cutting edge and affordable solutions for  things like 
sonar and manipulator arms and things.

Thanks,
Scott Waters

Sent from my U.S.  Cellular© Smartphone

Vance Bradley <_VBra676539 at AOL.com_ (mailto:VBra676539 at AOL.com) >  wrote:
Maryland and California (Navy) and Texas (southwest  research).
Vance

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2014, at 7:14 PM, swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ 
(mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >  wrote:

So is the design of crush depth of 1750m and test to 1250m  the idea? Next 
question is where can you find a pressure chamber  that has 1670psi 
capability?

Thanks,
Scott Waters

Alan  James <_alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:alanlindsayjames at yahoo.com) >  wrote:

Scott,
in  general people design their boats with a crush depth  of
twice  their operating depth, then test them to 1.25 or 1.5  x
there  proposed maximum operating depth.

So  design to 2000 meters & test it to 1250 meters.
Alan

From: swaters <_swaters at waters-ks.com_ (mailto:swaters at waters-ks.com) >
To: _personal_submersibles at psubs.org_ 
(mailto:personal_submersibles at psubs.org)   
Sent:  Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:29 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] New  submarine

I am playing with the idea of building another submarine.  Here is what I 
am thinking.
1) This project needs to be as challenging as the same amount  of 
difficulty as it was to build my first submarine
2) I want to have lots of bottom time with my K-350 to learn  what needs to 
be improved on in design and ability.
3) Learn to use CAD 
4) Project will take 5-7 years to complete

My initial goals are
1) Hold 3 people
2) Weigh 10,500lbs or less
3) Depth of 3,300 feet (1000m)

4) Have a very effective range of abilities such as a good  manipulator arm 
and tooling

5) Have a wide veiwing maybe a acylic dome front

Ok, shoot holes in the ideas. What will be the main  challenges to 
overcome? What complications am I not  considering?

Thanks,
Scott Waters

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