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RE: Calculation request
Carsten,
That's a major discrepancy in our results. I once compared the spreadsheet
I'm using to a program written by another PSUB member and the results were
very close for several scenarios -- within just a few percentage points.
If I can find some time over the weekend, I'll try calculating this by hand.
I also have to convert the material properties to imperial units. But again,
the difference is too big and one of us must be screwing up... most likely
me! I do want to clear it up however, because my own (future) PSUB is based
on the spreadsheet numbers, and if they are wrong I don't want to find out
by hearing a loud crunching sound.
The concrete and steel ballast is certainly nasty. What an inelegant way to
ballast the boat. If only they had put all that weight into the hull itself!
Alec Smyth
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Carsten
Standfuß
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 4:44 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: Calculation request
Dear Alec,
I run my tables with 2450 mm frame distance and get 74m (243 feet)
collapse deep.
with 2000 mm (79 inch) I get 76 m ( 250 feet)
with 1730 mm (68 inch) I get 80 m ( 262 feet)
with 585 mm (23 inch) I get 180 m( 590 feet) !
Did I a mistake in the tables ? The steel is St 37 with 370 N/mm2 with a
nominal K = 210 Nmm2 .
The bottom (bilge) of the sub is filled with a mixture of concrete and
scarp-steel.
The owner need 2 month to remove a area of 2000 x 400 x 200 mm
off them including cutting, drilling and explosives..
I think it will be very expensive to put some extra rings in.
You have to remove the concret, the engine, maybe the shaft, cut the
hull..
Here are the frame and bulkhead distance as is it :
Bulkhead, stern Tank 1000mm , than tank bulkhead, 2450mm than frame,
780 mm than light flat bulkhead, 1250 mm than light flat bulkhead,
1650mm than frame, 1730mm than frame, 2000 mm than tank bulkhead,
1000 mm tank than bulkhead. All frames 106 x 32 mm cut out from a plate.
Thickness off the tank bulkheads 12 mm..
The weight of one frame is about 193 Kg. She is build in 1986.
Engine room Tower Crew space area
stern (1000) 2450 I 780 I 1250 I 1650 I 1730 I 2000 (1000)bow
regards, Carsten
- and yes she is a monster and a girlfriend and family killer..
.. and a good place to drink your wiskey without questions.
> Alec Smyth schrieb:
>
> Carsten,
>
> That boat is a monster! But don't give up on it yet. You could
> increase the depth rating dramatically just by adding some extra
> rings. I ran numbers with 200m as the objective, and here is a
> possible solution. This is just one possible configuration, you could
> accomplish the same result with different combinations of number of
> frames/geometry of frames.
>
> You would need a total of 7 frames, with 4 of them being very
> heavy (lets say 250kg each) and 3 light (lets say 85kg each). Two of
> the heavy frames would either be right at the endsof the cylinder, or
> if the endcaps are strong enough, they would act as frames by
> themselves. The heavy and light frames would be alternated as shown
> below:
>
> ( | [ | [ | )
>
> This configuration yields a collapse depth of 234m. The weight
> addition would be about 1.25 tons, which a 45/55 ton boat should be
> able to accomodate. If you put 2 of the light frames between each
> heavy one, your depth goes to 280m for an additional weight of about
> 1.5 tons.
>
> Alec Smyth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Carsten
> Standfuß
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 12:54 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: Calculation request
>
> Carsten - from Germany
>
> Hi Big Dave, some answers you find on the mail to Alec.
>
> The Boat overall is 20 m (66 feet with 1 feet = 0,3048 m ) long.
> The pressure hull of 2,4m Diameter has a lenght of only 10 m (33
> feet).
> In front and aft the pressure hull are the hard dive and regulator
> tanks
> (its a combination of both) with 3 feet long each.
> One endcap, symbol = (, or ) , of this tanks goes outside the other
> goes inside to the pressure hull like :
> bow(tank)pressure hull(tank)stern.
> The rest is free floading anti-collison areas inside bow and stern.
> The reason for the big frame distance is the small amount
> of money the builders have had.
>
> The displacement is 45/55 tons. The engine is a 160 HP Diesel.
> No other drive engine. The boat dive today only static on one place.
> You
> will find a picture of the sub on on "my" page of Ray's great Homepage
> at PSUBS Picture Gallery with the titel "Spurdog".
>
> I have sleep inside last weekend and it is very nice to sleep
> in such big submarine. No sound of the Live support system - there
> is no L.S.S..- much Space and air inside. And if you switch off the
> electric light - than it is night inside - the hole day - good time to
> drink some bottles of wiskey and discuss about the mad and poor people
> which have not a submarine..
>
> And - hi Karl, the data I have giver to you about this
> sub are not longer secret - the dive deep is to shallow for me..
>
> regards, carsten - any other second hand autonomus sub out there ?
> It should be bigger than 30 feet and smaller than 90 feet..
>
> regards, Carsten
>
> D. Blake schrieb:
> >
> > Carsten:
> > Just to satisfy my curiousity, how long is the hull? What are the
> stiffener
> > ring dimensions? What shape and thickness are the endcaps?
> > Big Dave
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carsten Standfuß <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> > To: Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org
> <Personal_Submersibles@psubs.org>
> > Date: Monday, November 29, 1999 4:50 PM
> > Subject: Calculation request
> >
> > >Carsten - from Germany
> > >
> > >Hi friends, some of you use calculation
> > >progammes for pressure hulls.
> > >I use tables which are older.
> > >May some of you can cross check
> > >the dive deep ?
> > >
> > >I can buy an older bigger Psub with the
> > >following dimension: (1 inch = 24,5mm)
> > >
> > >Diameter outside = 2400 mm (98 inch)
> > >thickness hull = 15 mm (0,61 inch)
> > >frame distants = 2450 mm (100 inch)
> > >Steel : normal working steel, mild steel
> > >
> > >any cross check welcome, regards Carsten.
> > >