Re: Dry sub for sale?

[shawl@torchlake.com (Jonathan Shawl)]

Hi,
Thanks Nathanael, for your thoughts on the liable issue.
As far as a price on the sub, I have not set one. I didn't really have it up
for sale, but a offer to buy or trade was made. That got me thinking about
parting with it. So right now I am testing the market so to speak, to see what
I might be able to get out of it. I know about what I have into it, in time
and materials, but I also know it is only worth whatever a person is willing
to pay for it. The sub closest to it that I have seen for sale is the K-250,
and the last time I checked (years ago) it was selling for $100,000.00 tested
and ready to dive. This may be an exaggeration, but I think that comes out to
about $10,000 for the actual sub, maybe $10,000 for the builders profit and
the rest to "official testing and insurance".
My sub is a little different than the K-250.  In working out the hull
calculations it was good for more than I tested it to. The sub has passed an
"unofficial" single unmanned test dive to 140 feet. That is all the deeper the
lake was. The ASME book I have says the test depth is 125% of rated depth. So
that would come out to a 112' rating if tested to 140'.    Since my sub is not
"officially engineered and tested" and it has a depth rating of less than the
K-250' I would consider an offer much less than $100,000.00. or I might trade
it for something I need or want more than a sub. Assuming the sale or trade
came with a good liability contract!

Jon Shawl

Nathanael Henderson wrote:

> > I have been told 2 things and I'm not sure what one is right.
> > #1 I will always have some liability because I built it. or
> > #2 If I have the right type of sales contract I would be safe from any
> > liability.
>
>    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I'll take a stab at it.   I believe no
> matter what you do you can be held liable for the sub since you built it
> if it hurts/kills somebody because of a design flaw or substandard
> construction.    The other half of the coin is that you can largely
> protect yourself with a good contract.  For paranoia's sake I'd have a
> lawyer draw one up with a provision that the buyer accepts full financial
> responsibility (indemnification) for any claims resulting from losses
> related to the ownership and operation of the sub.  You could also require
> that the buyer sign an agreement to have the sub examined and apraised by
> an engineer or other such expert and certified as being safe for the rated
> depth before they use the sub.   What the agreement would practically mean
> is that the buyer could either have the sub checked out (in which case the
> person doing the certification becomes the liable party) or they can just
> use the sub without having it checked out, in which case they have largely
> freed you from resposibility since they have failed to fullfill their
> contractual obligation to have the sub independantly examined before using
> it.   It's a big song and dance designed to get arround the law.  :-)
> Bottom line, ask a real laywer--it'll cost a few hundred on a good day,
> but is probably worth the peace of mind.  Would it be impolite to ask how
> much the sub is selling for?  :-)