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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fill Rate & Blow Rate



The heaviest wall available for quarter inch tubing is very heavy indeed. .035" wall is rated for 3000 psi service and much easier to bend and fit-up. The only needle valve in Gamma (or the Perry boats, for that matter) is for oxygen. Everything else was done with Whitey ball valves. I prefer them as you can control air flow toward the high end with less effort. Once you crack the valve a time or two, the water starts to expel, and once you get the water moving out of the MBTs, then you can hit them harder and rise faster (as needed). Kittredge used what is effectively an air conditioning plumbing system in his earliest boats. Brass fittings and copper tubing were easy to come by and easy to install. Later on, he stepped up to SS and HP fittings. And hull stops are definitely required by ABS. We used 1000 psi brass Globe valves for the hydraulics systems hull stops at first, then SS. The brass worked fine, however, and is less expensive. All high pressure gas systems were SS. O2 systems used O2 rated valving. This is important for cleanliness and component material, as high flow 02 with any kind of petroleum lube equals fire. Not a good thing. A side note: I have the mushroom valve Jon spoke of in pieces on the work bench somewhere. I'll get that knocked out in May after I get home, and hook up with Jon to post the process on the psubs projects page. It's quick to build and you can dump a lot of air quickly with it. Plus, you can build it at home. One other thing: Gamma carries air and 02 internally, using yokes on charging whips to ease removal and installation. This rig provides plenty of flow, and there is no pressure reduction in the system. Nor need for any.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Smyth, Alec <Alec.Smyth@compuware.com>
To: personal_submersibles <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Thu, Apr 19, 2012 3:25 pm
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fill Rate & Blow Rate

Very good questions! There's no way to over pressurize the MBTs, they
have no bottoms. I suppose it would be possible if you had one with
small openings, but these literally have no bottom at all. Regarding the
possibility of a 3,000 psi air leak into the cabin, yes that is
certainly something to take into account, and I think it's in ABS
somewhere. Here are the mitigating circumstances in Snoopy, some on
purpose and some accidental:

- There's a cabin overpressure valve. I'm not referring to the ball
valve you would use to flood the cabin for bailing out. I mean a
separate spring loaded valve that automatically relieves any cabin
pressure buildup. I've noticed folks like Emile and Carsten do the same.
This is a must for me, with regulated or unregulated air. While a major
leak at 3,000 psi might be very rare, slow leaks are relatively common
and can also build up pressure over time unnoticed. If you aren't aware
of it you can blow a viewport or hatch during surfacing. Recall the
incident related by Kittredge in his biography. 
- There are hull stops on the HP lines, and they only require a quarter
turn.
- The tubing is 1/4 inch and the heaviest wall available. Therefore the
bore is quite small.
- I'm partial to small SCUBA tanks, and the largest I own is a 63 cf.
The cabin volume of a K250 is 40 cf. So even if you dumped the whole
tank into the cabin, it's not like you'd knock yourself out with a
pressure increase of hundreds of pounds. 




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 2:06 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fill Rate & Blow Rate

If you did have a ball valve or even a normal valve and you opened it
suddenly,
could you over pressurize your soft tanks and blow them out?

Now that got me thinking. If you had a valve or pipe failure and the
3000 PSI
tank air went inside the psub, could the pressure inside blow out the
hatch or
dome once you got to the surface, or worse, before you got to the
surface and
cause injury and flooding?

Alex


On 19-Apr-2012 Smyth, Alec wrote:
> Yes, that's correct. The thing is, you don't do it with a ball valve,
> you use valves that graduate more finely. 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon
Wallace
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:37 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fill Rate & Blow Rate
> 
> 
> Alec, I want to make sure I understand...you're running straight
piping 
> from HP tank to ballast tank and just using an appropriate sized valve

> someplace to let the air pass to the ballast tank.  With valve 
> completely open you're supplying 3000psi (with a full tank) into the 
> ballast tank.  Is this correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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-- 
Mailed on 19-Apr-2012.



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