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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] drug-sub mania
Hi Carsten,
Good points.
But wouldn't a submerged vessel close to the surface during the day be easily
spotted by a helicopter or other aircraft. Possibly showing up as a dark
shape in the back scatter of surface light.
Of course, this could be addresses with an active camouflage systems. Lights
on the outside/top of the hull which can have their intensity and color adjusted
to make the hull match the background color and light intensity. Not so easy
as it requires calibration, etc., but possible to implement.
Cheers!
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
>From: MerlinSub@t-online.de
>Sent: Feb 16, 2011 10:58 AM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] drug-sub mania
>
>Ian :
>
>I assume something like that:
>
>- The run on the surface most time.
>- if they come in areas were dectection is possible they run on snorckel depth - radio on.
>- one of there fishing vessel, no drugs on board, not far away will be on the same track.
>- If they hear on the frequency from the fishing trawler something like "helicopter in approch- dive 2 hours"
> or "Coast guard in approch - dive 4 hours" they just dive static for 2-4 hours.
>- Later the run back on the surface.
>- The hull shape indicate that she is also a good (night) surface runner..
>
>- Note that a static diving submarine all engines and machinery off, made from GRP and very close to the surface
> is nearly impossibel to detect with hydrophones or sonar.
>
>- The hatch and the hull shape is a clear sign that they now what they do. Only the snorckel is sureprisely fat.
>
>- If I am in the US Coast Guard I would check each single trawler heading in the right direction for a
> second infrared - signature - special at night. And I would check single runing boats for
> special underwater or radio communication..
>
>vbr Carsten
>
>
>
>
>"irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
>>
>> Hi Marc,
>>
>> valid points, but I was comparing the vessel to the surface craft they
>> use rather than a military sub. But still many military subs,
>> particular ones early on in a country's submarine history, have had
>> problems and where lost or had to be rescued.
>>
>> To make it more stealthy than the surface boats they will require
>> accurate depth keeping. Come up a few feet too much and you
>> present a taller radar target than the decks awash boats, a few feet
>> to low and you are starving the diesels (and crew) of air.
>>
>> I am wondering how thick the hull materially is going to be (any GRP
>> fans want to do some calculations and estimate the thickness of the
>> hull?). As the vessel dives there is going to be some contraction of
>> the hull, reducing buoyancy, making it go deeper.
>>
>> On top of the comparative complexity of construction and testing when
>> compared against low profile surface boats, there is the complexity of
>> operation and investment in crews. With complexity of operation come
>> the requirement of higher/more training for crews.
>>
>> With surface vessels, the procedure when captured is to scuttle the
>> vessel. The crew is arrested, held for some time, then released
>> to be re-used (this may have changed with some new laws making
>> operation of un-flagged semi-submersibles illegal). With the
>> submarine the crew can't just jump out and let the vessel sink, the
>> navy/coast guard can't just shoot the engine and board the vessel.
>> The submarine has to be sunk with the loss of the crew, meaning
>> no experienced crew members for another run (upon release).
>>
>> Compared to the operation of decks-a-wash-boats, the submarine doesn't
>> seem like it will make economic sense for drug smugglers. They are most
>> likely the relics of experimentation. Maybe in the future...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ian.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Marc de Piolenc <piolenc@archivale.com>
>> >Sent: Feb 15, 2011 10:27 PM
>> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>> >Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] drug-sub mania
>> >
>> >I'm not sure about the need for an elaborate shakedown. It's clear from
>> >the design of at least one of the subs captured that an experienced
>> >designer had worked on it; it was essentially a miniaturized Type
>> >XXI/Whisky design. A drug carrier would not have the highly variable
>> >loading of a warship, and far fewer hull penetrations to give trouble,
>> >not to mention the absence of torpedo compensation tanks and other
>> >paraphernalia of a naval sub. Initial static trim dives could be
>> >conducted in the very shallow water near the estuaries where these
>> >things typically get built, where the boat could rest on the bottom with
>> >the snorkel still protruding if something went wrong and trim needed to
>> >be drastically adjusted. With trim accomplished, submersion in the open
>> >ocean could be carried out under full diesel power so the diving planes
>> >would have full control authority.
>> >
>> >It's clear from the article linked to that they intended to proceed
>> >continuously at snorkel depth under IC engine power; they may not even
>> >have provided a storage battery and electric motors. This further
>> >simplifies design and eliminates a significant hazard from the battery,
>> >not to mention ensuring a continuous supply of fresh air and thus
>> >simplifying life support.
>> >
>> >Of course, it's possible that others have been launched and have come to
>> >grief, but I don't think it's necessarily the case. After all, the more
>> >successful they are, the less likely they are to be seen. The fact that
>> >all the full-submersibles captured so far were under construction could
>> >mean either that this trend has been nipped in the bud, or that their
>> >sister boats are operating successfully.
>> >
>> >Best,
>> >Marc
>> >
>> >On 2/16/2011 1:13 PM, irox wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Some more pictures of it here:
>> >> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/02/14/100-ft-long-drug-smu.html
>> >>
>> >> This is the third real alleged drug running sub found and the second fiberglass one.
>> >> None of which seem to have ever operated. A real submarine is significantly more
>> >> complex than a boat which runs with it's decks awash.
>> >
>> >
>> >
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