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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Design depth



Jon, just to add some detail to what you said:
 
1. Rated Depths only result from tests for the record in the presence of a Surveyor.
 
2. The Rated Depth cannot exceed the Design Depth for the simple reason that the Surveyor isn't going to test beyond what the builder has designated as the Design Depth.  And the reason for that is that the Design Depth had to be previously approved by the hull passing the Hydrostatic Test which is where the 1.25 factor comes into play (see Paragraph 3.1 below).  The other components of the sub have to pass various tests during the course of construction as well before the sub is even eligible for the rating tests.
 
Rated Depth:
The depth in meters or feet of water (seawater or fresh water) equivalent to the pressure for which the underwater unit has been operationally tested in the presence of the Surveyor, measured to the lowest part of the unit. The rated depth may not exceed the design depth.
 
Test Dive (2007):
A test dive to the design depth is to be conducted in the presence of the Surveyor. All penetrations and all joints accessible from within are to be inspected visually at a depth of approximately 30.5 m (100 ft) before proceeding to greater depths. All components, such as hull valves, whose operation is subjected to submergence pressure and which are required for safe operation, are to be operationally tested at this depth, if practicable. A log of the inspection of all hatches, viewports, mechanical and electrical penetrators, and valves is to be maintained. The submergence is then to be increased in increments of approximately 20 percent of the design depth until design depth is reached. At each 20 percent increment constant depth is to be maintained and accessible welds and other closures are to be inspected, and valves checked.  Unsatisfactory operations of a valve or unsatisfactory leak rate may be cause to abort the test. The test dive may be a single dive, as described, or a series of dives to accomplish the same purpose. The test dive is also to demonstrate satisfactory performance of life support systems, air conditioning systems (if installed), propulsion systems, electrical systems, and items required for safe operations.
 
Where the depth of water available is less than the design depth, both the rated depth (depth reached during test dive) and the design depth will be indicated in the Record. The rated depth may subsequently be increased by performing a test dive to a greater depth, not exceeding the design depth, in the presence of the Surveyor.
 
3.1 Hydrostatic Test
After out-of-roundness measurements have been taken, all externally-pressurized pressure hulls are to be externally hydrostatically proof tested in the presence of the Surveyor to a pressure equivalent to a depth of 1.25 times the design depth for two cycles.
 
I hope that ties at least some of the loose ends together.
 
Jim
 
In a message dated 12/11/2010 12:58:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, jonw@psubs.org writes:
Alan,

The definition for rated depth doesn't include any wording for a 1.25x safety margin.  It is nothing more than the depth to which the vessel has been operationally tested.  Absent a test chamber, the only way for a home-builder to "rate" their sub is to test dive it to some depth.  However, that depth may be significantly less than either the failure depth or predicted maximum operating depth.  For illustration, imagine the owner of a K350 who lives in Kansas where the deepest lake is no more than 50 feet.  If they go to 30 feet the first time they dive their sub, then that sub is only rated to 30 feet even though it is a K350.  If they go to 50 feet the second time they dive the sub, then that sub is now rated for 50 feet.  Assuming they never travel out of Kansas that sub will never be rated for more than 50 feet.  It doesn't mean the sub can't go to 350 feet, it only means it hasn't.  In this specific example I don't think adding a safety margin (1.25x) makes sense, and by definition its not required.  See ABS Underwater Vehicles Section 3.5 for a good example of how rated depth is used.  As I understand the ABS rules, rated depth is equivalent to saying "What's the maximum depth this sub has been operated at?".

Associating design depth with operating depth (maximum or not) doesn't make sense to me, but I guess I'll have to live with it.  We then need to include "failure depth" as a definition to our guidelines.

Jon


On 12/11/2010 12:30 PM, Alan James wrote:
Jon.
A bit of nit picking here but it seems the "rated depth" is the test depth devided by 1.25 (for ABS).
Or the same as your maximum operating depth.(design depth) & "Not" the deepest depth the vessel has been tested to.
 
ABS Rules for Building and Classing Underwater Vehicles, Section 3.3.1, requires a hydrostatic test "to a pressure equivalent to a depth of 1.25 times the design depth for two cycles." 
ABS defines Rated Depth as:
 
"The depth in meters or feet of water (seawater or fresh water) equivalent to the pressure for which the underwater unit has been operationally tested in the presence of the Surveyor, measured to the lowest part of the unit. The rated depth may not exceed the design depth."  Note the last sentence.
 ABS defines Design Depth as:
 
"The depth in meters (feet) of water (seawater or fresh water) equivalent to the maximum pressure for which the underwater unit is designed and approved to operate, measured to the lowest part of the unit."