Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 to K400 modification

Hi Daniel,

You are not comprehending this properly.

You will only experience the pressure of a 150ft scuba dive or ambient sub dive.

You take your boat to 250ft where it's at your maximum external pressure of

125psi (or maximum you would like it to experience).

At that point you pressurize it from the inside " but not to the ambient pressure

of the outside sea water".

You only pressurize it gradually, relative to the water pressure increase above

the 125psi mark. This means that at the 400ft mark internally you would see 150ft

of pressure but the hull would only be seeing the 125psi it was seeing at the 250ft

mark as the internal pressure would counter the additional external pressure.

People scuba dive to 150ft every day & most ambient sub owners tout that their

subs are capable of going to 150ft.

Alan

----- Original Message -----

From: Daniel Lance

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 6:13 AM

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 to K400 modification

Correction : at 400 feet sea water the average person breathing air will be exposed to the detrimental effects of the increased partial pressure of oxygen ( the safe limit of 1.4 ata PO2 is reached at just 198 feet sea water). I am sure there are some hardy individuals that can persevere thru this extreme dive profile but I doubt the average weekend warrior Psuber could.

----- Original Message -----

From: Daniel Lance

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: 7/4/2010 11:37:30 AM

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 to K400 modification

Alan,

Not to pile on , BUT , If a person was to dive to 250ft at one atmosphere and then equalize the interior of the sub to ambient pressure to continue the dive to 400ft then that is an ambient dive to 400ft . The pilot of this sub will be suffering the effects of nitrogen narcosis , possible oxygen toxicity issues ( partial pressure of O2 in air at approx. 178 psi is already enough ) and some serious decompression penalties.

This would be an ill advised procedure most likely ending in two emergencies instead of one. And if it took place in the US when the 24 hr News Media got done we would have some nice new government regulations to prevent a repeat.

Dan Lance

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan James

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: 7/4/2010 2:34:18 AM

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 to K400 modification

Hi Jon,

The emergency I was thinking of was along the lines of

a stricken sub entangled at 400ft & the nearest help was

a sub capable of 250ft depth.

Alan

----- Original Message -----

From: Jon Wallace

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:41 PM

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] K250 to K400 modification

Sorry Alan, I missed the "emergency situation" part. So yes, in an emergency where you are sinking in water beyond your normal operating depth you could certainly counter some amount of outside pressure by increasing the pressure within. That may delay (possibly prevent depending upon depth) hull failure but of course has the potential for some other nasty biological side effects and I'm guessing in such an emergency you're probably going to be at the increased ambient depth well beyond no-decompression limits. We had a similar discussion a few years ago about standardizing on a specific valve so that divers could feed air into the cabin of disabled sub that did not have life support capability, until that sub could be raised. I believe the discussion started with "schrader" valves (tire valves) which were determined to be too small to be useful. Many of the same issues were raised at that time ie...decompression upon surfacin! ! g, additional pressure in the cabin affecting instruments, etc.

Jon

On 7/4/2010 12:29 AM, Alan James wrote:

Thanks Hugh & Jon for the vote of confidance.

I did qualify this with " In an emergency situation". I think I have been misunderstood.

You take your sub down to its 250ft limit with several extra dive tanks on board.

At this point the outside of your hull is experiencing round 125psi.

For every 33ft further you go down you add 14.7psi. The hull would always be experiencing

125psi from the outside as the pressure you're adding would be countering the additional

pressure from additional depth.

So no pressure as such from the inside would be pushing your view ports out.

The reason I said to increase the O2 flow into the hull is the "bellows add" system based on

sensing a drop in pressure wouldn't work. In that system the O2 flow is set below the users

normal O2 consumption & then topped up from the bellows add system because if the O2

was set too high there would be a continual pressure build up & 02 % increase.

You could safely bump up the O2 a tad as it would be safer to have too much O2 than not

enough. This, as Jon said wouldn't matter much because your time would be constrained by

decompression tables, & there would be enough air in the hull to breath from.

So in a life or death emergency you could take several air tanks into your hull & a set of

dive timetables, open the tanks by hand at the 250ft mark & go to 400ft.

Alan