Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass hulls

That would be a room full of practically oriented people who really are as smart as they think they are, rather than a roomful of moderators and managers, who generally aren't (especially in groups and/or committees). And remember Heinlein's definition of a committee: in general, a creature with many arms and legs and no brain.

For deep sea applications, you'd be hard-pressed to produce a better shopping list than this one. Pretty interesting discussions? Hmm. I'll bet. Think of Werner Von Braun and the boys sitting around talking about rocket nozzle erosion rates and orbital mechanics as might be applied to putting up a big umbrella for solar flare protection or something.

Phil: 4 1/2 times more expensive??!! Sheesh. I knew it was high but.....wow. That's high.

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nuytten <phil@philnuytten.com>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 9:59 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass hulls

All:

Ditto toVance's comments on mandrel-wound GRP hulls; we have an experimental cylindrical hull section four inches thick by forty-eight inches OD. Cost? About 4.5 X the cost of metal!

Sitting in Reagan airport in Wash. D. C. On way home from a BP spill brain storming session at EPA headquarters. Old home week for submersible operators - Tolya Sagalevitch (MIR) Shirley Pomponi (JSL) the WHOI team

(Alvin) PH Nargeolet(Nautile) and on and on. Session coordinated by Jim Cameron and team. Pretty interesting discussions!

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

On 2010-06-01, at 1:29 PM, vbra676539@aol.com wrote:

Dust is why boat manufacturers use air tools. The constant outflow of exhaust air protects the innards. There is no intake.

On the shape subject, the UK built vehicles, including the LRs, were NOT complex hull forms. They were simple cylinders and hemisperical end pieces (save the electrical penetration reinforcements). Construction was done by rotating the hull on a sort of giant lathe looking thing and spooling resin impregnated glass thread onto the mandrel. Not a casual operation.

You will note that the exercise was never repeated after the hey-day of oil money came and went. I suspect that it was ultimately just too expensive.

Vance

-----Original Message-----
From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Tue, Jun 1, 2010 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Fiberglass hulls

I like some of the benefits of a fiberglass hull like no rust and the ability to make complex shapes. As for the cost though, It's not cheap. The fiberglass fairings and dive planes I made cost almost a thousand dollars just in material. They are a minimum of 3/8 inch thick with some small areas up to 1-1/2 inch. If a guy was to be making a 5 inch thick pressure hull from fiberglass, I can't imagine what the cost will be. ( LOTS $$$ )

Now I know there are places to get FRP materials cheaper than where I went but the cost savings isn't all that much. It's not only the resin and cloth. There's all kinds of stuff needed. It's the little things that add up. Brushes, buckets, acetone, tools, tape, glue, paints, mold materials, dyes, mold release, sand paper, rasps, and that list just goes on and on. And another note.....Fiberglass dust will EAT an electric motor like a grinder, sander, saw, or whatever tool you've got. Keep the dust out of the motor with masking tape and be careful not to overheat the tool.

Frank D.