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Just to be clear, my understanding is that psubs has never suggested that a psub needs to be certified. Psubs is only recommending that people try to build a sub based on the recommendations found in the guidelines so that their subs are safe.
My field is plastics fabrication (particularly acrylic). Over the years, I've made many domes and viewports for subs. Sometimes, people have come to me with their own designs that were not safe. The designs were either too thin, the wrong shape, the wrong material,etc,etc. Some of these people would have been killed, but they just don't believe that their "jet fighter canopy shaped dome out of Lexan with bolts drilled through it" is a bad idea. I politely refused, but there is no convincing them. They just KNOW that they are right and the books are wrong. As this sport grows, more of these people will be trying to enter. It is unavoidable.
There is no other way to respond to this other than to direct them to proven designs. The type that you can find in the ABS guidelines or the PVHO. The same information that worlds best sub builders also rely on.
What we are trying to avoid is an unessesary accident. It is possible (or probable) that real regulation may come about at some point (I personally don't like ANY regulation) Fatal accidents would certainly speed this up. It may also be possible that the government's response will be that all submersible vehicles will require ABS certification. Your congressman will see this as an easy fix.
So, in conclusion, we are very much AGAINST certification, especially having it imposed on us because someone got killed in a poorly designed sub.
But the information contained in the guidelines is great and you can build a great sub and go explore the underwater world by taking advantage of it.
Greg Cottrell Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] submarine kit-builder's society
Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 12:48 AM
Hello Jon, I am absolutly not confused. I know that my projects are "outside class" i have no problem with that as there are good and ethical reasons for my project for being and staying outside class.
I have no need and no intention to be "class near", "almost class", or any of the other fussy concepts i have heard about here. Class by definition is something where you are in or out - you can not be "half in" as you can not be "half pregnant" if you are not stamped and certified (and willing to pay the price for the paper ) you are out - just have the spine and live with it.
I would say that for the reasons Phil pointed out, the private sub builder segment has a intrinsic need to be out of class, stay out of class, and defend that space with the good arguments that exist to do so.
Wil
2010/6/6 Jon Wallace <jonw@psubs.org>
Hi Wil,
It sounds like you may be confused about what we are saying in regards to certification authorities. To be clear, we do not propose that home-builders should spend the thousands of dollars necessary to get a piece of paper declaring a sub is "certified". We never have suggested that or considered it a requirement. As Carsten stated in his email, we say, get a copy of ABS, read it, understand it, build to it. If you do so, the chances are pretty good that you have a safe and reliable submersible on your hands.
Jon
Jon,
I do not really believe in your thesis that tecnology leadership comes from "administration societies" and that they do a solid research and development miles ahead of us. Even in our overadministrated times leadership comes from motivated individuals who push the fronties it - administration always follows.
I am not "anti standard" or "anti classification" i am against the satanisation of the "outside class status" as "unsafe", "unprofessional", "unreliable" etc...
The fact that currently there is a life outside classing agencies for private subs is the "air supply" of our sport. To fill a a private submarine builder forum with arguments to cut this air supply and regulate our sport out of existance - is not a wise course of action...
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