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Hi Jay, Thanks, I've been putting away pictures
and other data on all manor of hatch designs as I come across them. I
didn't have easy access to the Subeo, Gemini pictures, since they were in one of
my many Sub SORT folders that I've been meaning to get to when I got bored.
Needless to say it's hard to get bored with submarine technology, and the more
you figure out, the more that comes to light, and/or is being developed. It's a
constant evolution. I have always been really fascinated with hatch design
more then any thing else sub related for some odd reason. Ever since I
walked around the USS Pampanito, and operated the large interior door that goes
into the forward torpedo room. I don't think I was supposed to do that,
but better to ask forgiveness, then permission some times.
;}
I also suspect the gas struts (if that is
what they actually are) on the Aviator is more spendy, and perhaps very
custom. Also that sub, like many PSUBs don't live in the marina, but high
and dry in the garage or otherwise covered. So that will affect the longevity of
the gas struts. If we just used the SS gas struts you can get at many auto parts
stores, and they only lasted a few years, in a external use capacity then it
might work out to be a good deal. I really like the internal ones for a
number of sub designs.
The Deepworkers are spendy submersibles compared to
most PSUBs, but I don't know that the gas struts Phil uses are out of are
league. We will have to ask him. It wouldn't surprise me if they are the basic
ones you can get at the auto parts store. When I was at a couple of different
auto parts stores looking at the gas struts, it was mostly a matter of what
connection ends you wanted, lifting force the strut would produce, and length of
throw.
For tighter spaces, I can see clamping two, to four
struts together, like you see on the SEAmagines. With one or two struts piston
rods pointed in the opposite direction from each other. I'm currently
working on a animated assembly of Franks hatch with a relay of two pairs of
struts mounted internally, and up against the ceiling towards the back of the
sub with a lever arm between them. This keeps the struts out of the center open
space.
I can see a K-350 that uses a lighter acrylic
cylinder, for the upper part of the CT, to replace the heavy weldment type
viewport section. Very much as I plan to configure mine. This might relieve
enough weight to allow for a larger OD CT, with out having saddle tanks or
amas. The trend now looks to me, to add saddle tanks to the K-350 design
for more freeboard and surface stability. Even with the current design
according to the plans, if the struts are brought in closer together as
they are on the S101 and possibly on the S102, then they are on the Deepworkers,
as I have them configured in my subs refit. It looks to me in my assembly that
there is enough room in the back to fit them in. We will have to see how
it works out when I've got them installed. The S101 CT has the same basic
inside dims as a K boat, and they fit them in tight in the back, up in the upper
steel tube section above the acrylic cylinder. The ends that are connected
to the steel tube section are attach high up in the tube. So when the hatch is
opened there isn't even a rod sticking out as there is on the Deepworkers.
I like that basic configuration, but since I don't want them in the way of my
large center mounted hatch viewport, I'm leaning towards the basic Deepworker
configuration, and attach the lower strut ends near the base of the acrylic
cylinder.
By adding the Acrylic CT to my K-250 sub design,
it made it easier to add a basic internal gas strut configuration, like we see
on the S101 and Deepworkers.
The S101 being Paul's first sub, has it's design
issues. But I've been amazed how well it did come out, being his first sub he
produced. Unless he did a lot of military design work I'm not privy
to. I believe it's been on the market as long as it has, because Ellis was
wanting over $600,000, for a sub that you couldn't get insurance on in the US
and many other places. This being because it was not classed to begin with. They
built it for the Swedish Navy. He's lowered the price to $480,000, which
is still more then I make in a week. I believe the acrylic
components need to be replaced, and the engine compartment it really tight
to work in, unless you unbolt the stern section. I have not heard of
it being lengthened.
The S102 sister ship last I
heard had been purchased by a treasure hunter, and sent
to Philippines. It was also produced for the Swedish Navy, and
they claim it was very economical to operate, and didn't consume many spare
parts during it's run with the Swedish Navy. It was Lloyd's
classed.
"S101 was our first submarine.
Launched in 1986, the MSubs S101 was influenced by our chief designer's
experience of military submarines .
At this time the Swedish Navy were
being troubled by Soviet midget submarine incursions into their sensitive naval
bases. Current detection techniques were unable to locate these
sophisticated craft and so a decision was taken by the Navy to embark on a
development program aimed specifically at locating and tracking midget
submarines. The Navy attempted to lease a suitable target sub but was
unable to find anything to match the speed, mobility and silence of the
Russians, until they tried S101. Through an independent diving company, S101 was
tested and found to have remarkable range and speed. The Swedish submarine
pilots remarked that no matter which direction the submarine was pointed, there
always seemed to be a following current. Later S101 was operated for a period by
the Sea Shepherds conservation society and is now owned and being refited by a
US submarines partner, Ellis Adams."
From old Marline Submarine Web
Site
Regards,
Szybowski
From: Jay K. Jeffries
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Gas Shocks Used on the Exterior to Lift
a Hatch Brent, Nice
research job! It
you look carefully at the links to the images that you provided, the exterior
units are custom built. I don?t think they will fall into the economical
budget that you speak of from time to time. The $1.5M submersible Deep
Flight Aviator whose owner can afford to have a team of technicians to
maintain his sub. The other with twin domes is probably not cheap either
(haven?t seen a price). While economical gas struts can be used for
internal hatches, it appears that they have been mounted generally on rather
large diameter units (I am sure that most of us can?t afford to run out and
purchase a DeepWorker 2000 either). If we speak of the K-350
and look at the diameter of the hatch and the other items already mounted within
the conning tower, adding struts internally will just make things worse.
The K-350?s stability and freeboard will not support a larger
diameter conning tower and hatch. You
keep referencing the S101 but I wonder really how successful this
submersible is. If I remember correctly, it has had to be lengthened and
it seems like they are having a hard time finding a buyer. I believe one
of your recent emails cited that it was not built to ABS specs so it is going to
have a hard time finding insurance if used for commercial work. There are
some neat features in this sub but are they worth the
money? R/Jay Resepectfully, Jay K.
Jeffries Andros
Is., Bahamas Save the whales,
collect the whole set. From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brent
Hartwig I like the gas struts
mostly because I think they are simple and clean, low weight, quiet, easy to
obtain, not really expensive, and they give you a nice smooth
motion. Here are the images I
was looking for, showing the gas struts on the exterior free flooding area,
under the Subeo, Gemini hatch fairings. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Deepworker 2000
has a really clean and simple internal mounting means using gas
struts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is a image of
the S101 with two gas struts mounted internally. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These two pictures
show the Deep Flight Aviator hatch assist means, that look like there might be
large gas struts mounted externally. " Modern Art is
what happens when painters stop looking at girls and persuade
themselves that they have
a better idea." ~ John Ciardi Regards, Brent
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