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Hi Dean, I find it to be a tug a war with militaries historically. There are many amazing stories of respect and honor. Those are even more gleaming when compared to the dark side of history. Simon Lake very early on had a much better design then having to use a wet exit, and it wasn't implemented for one reason or another. Captain Kittredge and partner had a great patent and gave it to the US Navy and it was not used, when other Navies later did use it. It appears to be more to do with politics and/or those in charge not knowing what they were looking at. I've heard a number of stories of Captains, Generals, and others in a position to know, not understanding why there clear request for known upgrades, being denied or ignored. It shouldn't always be that one needs to be all for, or all against some thing. Again this is a matter of not throwing the baby out with the bath water. Just because there are some people that have other priorities in a given military then to truly respect the troops down to the last person, and you call them on it, doesn't mean your against the whole works. Phil Nuytten has been working for a long time on 1 atm escape means for the whole crew. "Following the specific work on the Remora (or more properly, the ‘Articulating Pressure Conduit’), Nuytten spent considerable time reviewing the history of submarine sinkings, crew rescue, crew escape, current worldwide assistance capabilities, and depth capabilities. The conclusion reached was that the Remora/Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV) style of outside intervention and rescue was not optimal, and the self-rescue was the only reasonable approach, for a number of reasons. After in-house study, Nuytco Research entered into a formal contract with Canada's Department of National Defense (DND) and the Defense and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine (DCIEM) for the purpose of determining the feasibility of a one-atmosphere self-rescue system. This system in known as the ‘Personnel Pressure Suite’ (PPS) and comprises an escape suit that can be tolerate to full outside pressure to the collapse depth of the submarine, as well as full internal pressure in the even that unit must be used to escape from an already-pressurized, disabled submarine (DISSUB). The study was successfully completed in 2000. Subsequently, an external/internal pressure joint was developed as well as an ultra light weight, small volume PPS hull. The Exosuit torso was used for preliminary evaluation, but the final individual package could be as small as a sixteen by twenty-four inch cylinder. Nuytco has made several presentations on this proposed system to NATO submarine work groups on submarine escape/rescue with good reception. The concept is an order of magnitude less expensive than intervention-style rescue systems and would give small submarine groups the same rescue capabilities as the larger military powers. There is no situation where the availability of an individual self-rescue system would preclude outside rescue or intervention if circumstances favour that method and the physical assets are available. The capital costs of equipping a 50 man crew with PPS systems is far less than even the proportioned cost of maintaining a DSRV or Remora-style capability. Virtually all DISSUBs begin to take on internal pressure as a consequence of being disabled. As a result, crew are, almost always, at risk of some degree of tissue saturation." http://www.nuytco.com/research/rescue.shtml Regards, Szybowski From: Recon1st@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 22:03:13 -0400 Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Escape from sub To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Brent I am an old Recon Marine and it is not true that our military does the minimum. On the
contrary. Have you ever heard of the Navy dive tables and such. It take many dollars to train
a special forces person, and for no other reason, you could imagine, it would be very
stupid to lose your investment. I have been there, and survival of the individual is at the
top of the list of priorities. These people do a very dangerous job, with no rewards you
would understand. Many are lost but not to negligence from the military.
And as far as escape pods, do you have any idea of the number of people on a military
sub. Even my simple math abilities can understand how ridicules that statement is.
Dean Ackman
USMC
In a message dated 8/5/2009 8:09:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, brenthartwig@hotmail.com writes:
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