Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster Options

HI Brent, i put the pictures on psubs projects. Les K

----- Original Message -----

From: Brent Hartwig

To: PSUBSorg

Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 3:35 PM

Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster Options

Hi Les,

I'll be interested in seeing your pictures, and take some of your seals arrangement as well if you get a chance.

I read about the Captain retrieving his K-250 that he lost to the locker when the dome pooped out, by attaching a short length of garden hose to the open snorkel valve and then have the hose go to the bottom of the sub while he was in SCUBA gear. Then he released the drop weight and opened a valve just a crack from the high pressure air system and got out and had to quickly close and clamp the hatch shut to make the sub drain and resurface. I don't remember George talking about filling the MBTs with air from the high pressure tanks or from a free flowing SCUBA regulator outside the sub, and under the tanks. If he had then wouldn't of needed to release the drop weight to make up for any remaining water in the sub not being completely siphoned out.

From what I read, I think the sub was in less then forty feet of water, so I'm not sure why he didn't just stay in the sub while it was draining, move the hose around to get almost all the water out, fill the MBT's, then completely drain the VBT and surface without dropping the drop weight. If need be he could surface at a controlled rate for decompression stops using the VBT and/or thrusters in the vertical position.

I was wanting a way to easily and completely drain the sub without having a tube running down to the bottom if possible, or having a basic valve sticking up just above the very bottom of the sub, meaning that there would be water left in the sub after draining down to the top of the valve.

Carsten and/or Emile, how many PSI above external water pressure do you expect for it take for the type of spring you have on your large over pressure plate valve on the KSS to open?

Regards,
Szybowski

> From: lesmarki@triton.net
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster Options
> Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:19:02 -0400
>
> the snorkel valve is all you need, if you do build up pressure you have to
> let it out very slow or you get a headache for a few weeks,,I know, been
> there done that,. I'm uploading some pictures of my new sub project. Made a
> test piece for the seals in my dogs for the hatch and motor swivels. test to
> 50psi no leeks with the u-block seal,,same seal in hydraulic hose's. making
> rear MBT, same as last sub, easy build-nice shape, 3 days at the most.Going
> to cut my trolling motor controls to fit in a box, 2 side by side and make
> levers just like the gear shifters for a twin screw boat.
> The more that gets done the excitement mounts-hope to be in the water at
> the end of summer, you can't buy lead in this state anymore so I'm
> collecting dead batteries. any thought's . Les K
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MerlinSub@t-online.de>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster Options
>
>
> It will not work as over pressure vale..
>
> vbr Carsten
>
> "Brent Hartwig" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Alec,
> >
> > Your reminded me of one reason I didn't wish to go with air compensated
> > thrusters. It was a slow bleed into the interior of a K-250 that George
> > was running, that made the hatch dome pop out when he started to ascend,
> > and he was lucky to of survived. This is also why I plan to install a over
> > pressure valve much like the larger one that is installed on the KSS.
> > Except I'll be mounting mine in the bottom of the sub so it can also be
> > used to drain the sub after a wet exit training exercise.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Szybowski
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster Options
> > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:14:20 -0400
> > From: Alec.Smyth@compuware.com
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Dan,
> >
> > I recall a past thread in the past on this topic, it
> > must be in the archives. Mine were air compensated when I bought Snoopy
> > but
> > I switched to oil because the way the air compensation was originally
> > implemented, a little air bled into the cabin raising the interior
> > pressure. So I've run the same exact motors in both air and oil. I cannot
> > tell the slightest difference. They seem to have exactly the same power,
> > and
> > even make exactly the same sound. In retrospect, I wish I'd measured the
> > current
> > draw so I could compare that, but I'm afraid it's too late. Either method
> > works
> > just fine.
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Alec
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It
> > contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named
> > addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or
> > disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us
> > immediately and then destroy it.
> >
> >
> > From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Dan
> > H.
> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:08 AM
> > To:
> > personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side
> > Thruster Options
> >
> >
> >
> > If I were to do it again I would also go with a Minkota
> > or similar for me thrusters. I built mine from standard DC
> > motors. They're ambient pressure inside and have ceramic shaft
> > seals. It was a lot to go through and not cheep when all was done.
> > The worse is the weight of them.
> >
> > Speed controllers aren't really necessary on fractional
> > horse powered thrusters like side thrusters because of the mass of the
> > sub. It doesn't react fast. Just pulsing them on and off is
> > sufficient. Where I do recommend a speed controller is on the rear
> > thruster so you can slowly cruse, skimming the bottom.
> >
> > Has anyone done any experimenting with oil filling
> > thrusters to determine if there is an increase in electrical current draw
> > or
> > reduction in thrust do to the drag of the swirling oil and maybe some
> > floating
> > of the brushes?
> >
> > Dan H.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > glen
> > brown
> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >
> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side
> > Thruster Options
> >
> >
> > Hi Brent
> > I am also planning on using Min Kota 's on my K350 I am
> > also thinking of splitting my front mbt for better view of my hydraulic
> > manipulator you got any thoughts.
> > All the best
> > glen south Africa
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > Brent Hartwig
> > To: PSUBSorg
> > Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 12:23
> > AM
> > Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Side Thruster
> > Options
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings James,
> >
> > I'm also planning
> > on installing small mostly off the shelf thrusters on the sides of my
> > K boat
> > to reduce drag and simplify things. I've been planning on using 36
> > volt Minn Kota 101 saltwater thrusters, like Frank, and I believe
> > Vance are
> > using and oil compensate them. Last I checked those thruster were
> > running $250 each with the speed controllers going for $150
> > each.
> >
> > I'll have to check my notes, but I believe Karl Stanley
> > is using 6 of the 36 volt Minn Kota saltwater thruster that he has oil
> > compensated, and has used down to 2500 fsw. Two for vertical thrust
> > and four in the stern. Are you expecting to go that deep James. ;}
> >
> > I
> > like the idea of using the existing flexible shafts on some motors
> > that Alec
> > mentioned. I expected that I would clamp mine on in a similar manor as
> > Frank
> > has done, since I'm not sure of the long term saltwater durability of
> > my
> > favorite brand of duck tape.
> >
> > I see the need to beef up the side thru
> > hulls, and was planning on looking closely at how Dan beefed his up.
> > With
> > the new tangle guard configuration I'm planning, I don't expect the
> > thrusters will sustain any real damage unless the Euronaut or the like
> > plays
> > to rough with my sub.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Szybowski
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Subject: RE:
> > [PSUBS-MAILIST] Subdate
> > > Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:46:21
> > -0400
> > > From: Alec.Smyth@compuware.com
> > > To:
> > personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> > >
> > > Hi James,
> > >
> > >
> > 1. Do people just buy the standard Minn Kota outboard motor complete
> > >
> > with the bracket, leg, controls, handle, battery etc and just modify
> > the
> > > motor part? or can you get just the motor and prop on its
> > own?
> > >
> > > AS: You can buy just the parts you need cheaper than
> > the whole thing, I
> > > recommend www.trollingmotorparts.com.
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > 2. Whats the through hull design? A straight forward twin
> > O ring
> > > through hull on the outboard shaft?
> > >
> > > AS: I
> > would not go with the standard pipe because it just isn't strong.
> > > In
> > fact some motors come with plastic pipes designed to be flexible so
> > >
> > the shaft bends when you hit something, rather than break off. On
> > the
> > > side thrusters, I've got heavy through-hulls. I did use the
> > stock pipe
> > > on the stern thruster, because that one doesn't go
> > through the hull. The
> > > through-hulls are just a SS bar stock with an
> > external shoulder to
> > > prevent the thing from being pushed in, and
> > bored to whatever minimum
> > > inside diameter you need for the cables
> > and potting. Do not just pot the
> > > cables, you have to put in solid
> > conductors so the pressure doesn't wick
> > > along the cable strands. I'd
> > recommend machining some vice flats on the
> > > through-hull too, for the
> > day you need to unscrew a thruster that's been
> > > on there a few years.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. Compensation. Oil, ambient air pressure
> > regulator?
> > > I've had both but like oil compensation the best because
> > it's the
> > > simplest (not a single moving part). I just changed the oil
> > a couple of
> > > days ago. I expected it to be laden with carbon
> > deposits, but it came
> > > out looking like new despite being in there
> > for 4 years. Admittedly I
> > > put very few hours on the sub, but it
> > still surprised me that the oil
> > > came out looking as clear as the day
> > it went in. And yes, it WAS oil not
> > > water that came out...
> > >
> >
> > > :)
> > >
> > > Alec
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG -
> > www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.63/2169 - Release
> > Date: 06/11/09 05:53:00
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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