Vance, Having easy thru hull options is useful. I will be adding another plate thru hull assembly in front of the conning tower as well under a small standing platform. I also want that same type of platform behind the conning tower. That existing plate thru hull, looks like they just used a standard pipe flange and welded it in. My friend had SS ones like that he installs in his SS tanks I could use if I wished. I don't have all the data here with me, but if I recall correctly the tube has a ID of 6 inches, and a wall thickness of 1/4". The top plate is 5/16" thick and the flange is 3/8" thick. The OD of the plate is 8 3/4". I was planning or replacing the steel plate with a thicker 316 SS one.
I've now been thinking about cutting off the flange and installing a smaller diameter plate, and attach it internally sorta like the ones on the S201, but use welded on SS tabs instead of the SS retaining ring, to make it even easier and cheaper to fab up. This configuration might be the cheapest and easiest to make and install in the tube section or the heads. Basically you just start with a cheap steel tube. I'm planning on making a CAD model shortly, so I can show you exactly what I'm thinking.
Regards,
Szybowski
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 17:53:03 -0500
From: vbra676539@aol.com
Brent,
It looks like a pretty good way to get multiple connectors without having to chuck the sub up in a mill. How thick is that flange, and how thick the tubular penetration? Assuming they were an assembly, it seems like you might be able to install something like that without distorting the O-ring mating surface. Maybe I'd be tempted to repace the disc with a stainless piece, but hey, it's there, right? Run what you brung.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: PSUBSorg <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 4:45 pm
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
I had these pictures in a folder earlier, but Windows Live some how messed up the folder some time back in such a way so you couldn't view them, and I was not able to delete the folder. So I've put them in a new folder for my electrical thru hull pictures. You can see that thin plastic electrical thru hulls, and threaded holes in steel plate, is not the best way to go.
http://cid-5085d10eb6afe47c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Electrical%20Thru%20Hull%20Wiring/Large%20Plate%20Thru%20Hull%20on%20K-250%20%7C3118
Szybowski
From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 13:43:25 -0800
Hi Rick,
I see now, says the blind man as he spits into the wind. It's all coming back to me now. Your going to weld in your SS plate, which will give you more area to drill holes, then if that size of plate was used in a removable configuration. Your not alone in using that config. since Dan Brewer and Emile have done that as well. It's a very usable configuration.
http://www.psubs.org/convention/2007/photos/rayk/Dan_Brewer_Sub/640/5.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.nl/submachine55/kreideseesub#5294570603186873954
I prefer using a removable plate type, since you can add holes and thread then if you wish much easier, and if at some point you need a totally different hole pattern and/or size you only have to make a new plate. This way no welding is needed later down the road.
See if you can send the pictures to me off list if you can not upload them to Frappr, Flicker, Fritter, Flack, or the like. There is a couple of tricks with Frappr if you would like to know them. I sent some pictures to you the other day, if you didn't see the email, it will likely be in your junk mail folder.
Regards,
Szybowski
From: landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 13:34:52 -1000
Hi Brent,
I'll look around and see if I can find some better shots of the SAT penetrators that show them closer up, if not I will send you the one I have at hand. I have never posted any pictures on this site and am ashamed to say that I am quite computer illiterate compared to the majority of members on this site judging from a lot of the neat CAD drawings I have seen people whip up. I blame it on too much helium, or not enough, back in my SAT days.
I was planning on cutting out a 6" diameter piece of the 5/8" plate and then cutting out a slightly larger hole in the dished end to allow for a proper root gap and then doing a full pen weld. My reason for putting it into the dished end is because it is thicker than the hull plate and I feel it would be stronger due to the dished end curving in all directions rather than the hull plate curving in only one direction. I certainly could be wrong about that and am open to any suggestions.
Rick P.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
Hi Rick,
Using those left over SS plates is a good plan. Phil recently mentioned he does that as well. They don't give away the thick SS plate any more. ;)' I've change my conning tower design because of the new SS plate pricing. I've got a couple of ideas of how I can TIG weld in some SS sleeves and/or threaded blind sleeves to attach the SS tension rods or bolted on the rings, to hold the thick acrylic cylinder in position. Then ease the corners of the seating groove for the acrylic cylinder, and use a soft gasket to seal the parts together. This way I can just use steel plate conning tower seating flanges.
Do you have any pictures of the SAT system thru hulls? They would be interesting to take a look at.
I just found some more pictures of the S201 interior attachment means for there plate thru hulls. I can now see that they used three bolts to hold the outer SS plate in place with a SS ring inside, instead of just two bolts. This if more like what I would expect from Paul. He also uses just three light weight attachment points on his hatches.
I also found some pictures of the plate thru hull design used on the Alicia submarine. They are mounted on the top aft end of the tube section of the hull, instead of the heads, and so they are a bit different. They don't have the nice angle on the outside surface as those on the S201. He installed a number of basic individual thru hulls on Alicia's rear head as well. But he didn't do that on the S201's rear head. He instead opted to use four large plate thru hulls, of the same size and configuration as the ones on the front head. This makes manufacturing and installing the parts easier as well. This I feel shows the fast evolution of his designs.
Are you wanting to make the total outer SS plate diameter 6", or the ID of the welded in thru hull 6"? If you have total outer SS plate size of 6", and you have say a 4" ID of the welded in thru hull, I would think it wouldn't give you enough room to fit in 8 1/2" holes, and all the rest.
Regards,
Szybowski
From: landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:12:28 -1000
Hi Brent
I was hoping to use the ss drop I have left over from cutting the sealing ring for the hatch on my K-350 if possible and it's 5/8" thick. I will need 8 apertures in it for four functions for my mechanical arm but not sure of the hole size yet until I can determine flow and lifting requirements. I am guessing approx 1/2" but may be wrong. I would also like to keep it at no more than 6" diameter if possible for obvious reasons. I went back and looked at some pictures of some Sat systems I used to live and work in and all there penetrators seem to go threw a removable blind flange.
Rick P.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 6:20 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Large Plate Multi Thru Hull Options
That's a very good question Rick. One that I've been pondering since yesterday. I was planning on having one large one centered on both the front and rear heads and up a bit. But with the mushroom vent assembly being in that area, the lines coming out of the plate would get in the way. So now it looks to me like my best option is to put two smaller ones towards the sides, much like what was done on the S201 as seen in these pictures linked below. As you might expect, the larger the plates unsupported diameter, the thicker it should be. What that is we'll have to work out. Also we need to consider how many holes of what size there will be, and where. I was thinking of using a .5" or .75 thick piece of 316 SS for a plate with a inside unsupported diameter of 6 or 7 inches. I need to guestimate the number and size of items I want to go thru e!
ach plate, and then leave some room for future needs/wants. Currently I feel I'll need a good amount of thru hull connections for future pnuematic acturators, sonars, cameras, more lighting, and paint ball guns for sub tag. May be not the last one. ;)' I know a few other guys that wished they had added more thru hulls for future unknown needs/wants.
http://www.msubs.com/Images/Services%20Images/Pressure%20Vessel%20Design/Pressure%20Vessel%20Design%20-%20Main%20Image.jpg
http://www.msubs.com/Images/S201%20Images/S201%20-%201.jpg
http://www.msubs.com/Images/S201%20Images/S201%20-%203.jpg
In this picture of the interior of the S201 you can see on the center left side, the way Paul designed the plates to be attached from the inside, with a simple SS ring plate and two bolts. This way he does not need to drill into the welded in seating ring, and the ring can be made with a much cheaper steal, rather then use very thick SS. I'm working up a CAD model to better show this configuration. I'm not sure if a O-ring or gasket in the SS plate will be the best option. I'm leaning towards a O-ring configuration.
http://www.msubs.com/Images/S201%20Images/S201%20-%208.jpg
Regards,
Szybowski
From: landnsea1@hawaiiantel.net
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:32:26 -1000
What diameter and thickness ss plate are you going to use in the front and rear heads?
Rick P.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
The rotary thru hull is rusted and has male threads on the exterior that are rusting quite nicely. I'm changing all the thru hulls in the sub to 316 SS couplers, so while I'm at it I might as well change that one as well, so I can get all the hull welding out of the way. I'm adding two large SS plate type thru hulls on both the forward and rear heads for what ever I might want later as will as current needs. This way I can install and run a pnuematic, electric, or hydralic arm later.
I just figured out how Paul Moorhouse attaches his SS plates without any bolt holes in the main hull. So I'll make a CAD model to show you guys what I thinking will be nice to use on my sub.
http://cid-5085d10eb6afe47c.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Claw%20Removel/SS%20Claw%20Control%20Bar/DSCN7320.JPG
"A wise man will make more opportunities than he finds." ~ Sir Francis Bacon
Szybowski
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:43:13 -0500
From: vbra676539@aol.com
I'd leave the rotary penetrator plugged for when you can think of something to do with it, and build something more useful for a manipulator. That's if you can find it under the snowfield.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: PSUBSorg <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 6:35 pm
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
Hi Vance, The winter up here is pretty deep. I went home the other day to shovel snow off my buildings and Van and it was a four day chore. I had the sub ready for blasting outside, and then was called away from home to work. By the time I got back the sub was under 4 plus feet of snow. The pictures I took are pretty funny. I'll post them in a bit. So the sub is underwater and in the deep freeze for save keeping.
I have been debating for some time now if I should leave my original claw arm on the sub. It's very hard and slow to actuate. So at the moment it's used for just a crash bar, like Alec uses his for. I can make a proper replacement crash bar, then later add a more functional arm. So it's mostly a matter of nostalgia at the moment. What would you do in my place. I take it you could see the pictures right?
Jay try this link to the root for the albums. If that doesn't work then I'll post them on Flicker. I tried those links when being signed out and being on Windows Explorer browser and had no trouble. I also tried them on a Mac in Firefox and had no trouble. The only thing I can see that is different in the link from the address bar from the ones in my posting is the %20 sign used in place of spaces that are put in automatically when I copy and past the links. Perhaps they are causing the trouble if you copy and paste them. I tried them both by just clicking the links and copying and pasting and they worked good. The albums are set as public just like I did before. Hope this works.
Regards,
Szybowski
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:52:07 -0500
From: vbra676539@aol.com
It's nice to know I'm not the only one stuck with bull work. Of course, it was 76 degrees here today, sunny and a few clouds...breezy. Okay, I can't think of a complaint. And there's some of you guys who up to your armpits in winter, and I do mean winter.
Vance
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Hartwig < brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: PSUBSorg < personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 5:43 pm
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] The Long Arm of the Claw
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