I'd suggest things are far better as is than with these proposed changes. The volume of emails is not such that I have any need to segregate them by topic. All I have is a rule set up in my email program that diverts all PSUBS emails to a separate folder, where I catch up with them from time to time. I certainly don't need "official" cards or lapel pins! Jon and Ray put a lot of work into the site essentially from the goodness of their hearts. Perhaps we can have an annual voluntary contribution to help defray their costs. PSUBS is invaluable to me, I wouldn't mind it one little bit if I was asked to make a contribution. Thanks, Alec The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jon Wallace Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 02:11 To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Important PSUBS Info - Please Read Hello, At the August 2008 PSUBS Convention, the subject of membership was raised and a consensus of attendees indicated that they were in favor of creating a PSUBS membership program with certain features and benefits targeted only to the membership. Of primary interest were targeted mailing lists for specific discussions, active monitoring and moderating of topics, a stated commitment to safety, and discounts from industry partners that might be available to us. Although not yet complete, we are ready to accommodate any "early birds" who wish to start their membership at this time with limited benefits. Available immediately are six targeted mailing lists for members-only, and members may suggest others that may be appropriate: 1) "MEMBER-FORUM" for general topics and discussions 2) "1ATM" for discussions specific to 1ATM submersibles 3) "AMBIENT" for discussions specific to ambient submersibles 4) "EXPERIMENTAL" for non-traditional submersible design/construction topics 5) "ROV" for discussions specific to ROV and AUV vehicles. 6) "SAFETY" for topics specific to safety, standards, and guidelines As a condition of PSUBS membership, you must indicate that you have read and accept the "PSUBS Membership Agreement" which is available at http://www.psubs.org/membership/PSUBSMembershipAgreement.pdf This is an important legal document in which you give up certain legal rights, so please read it carefully. You can pay for membership online via PayPal or send us a check or money order. All instructions are at http://www.psubs.org/membership Details of "planned" membership features are listed at http://www.psubs.org/membership and include: - Official membership card with unique ID number - Official PSUBS Lapel Pin and Bumper Sticker - Access to member-only discussion lists - Member BIO page and web-publishing your project photos - Discounts on PSUBS sponsored conventions and meetings - Discounts on products from our industry partners - Discounts on various items from the PSUBS online store At the 2008 convention, it was specifically requested that a PSUBS coffee cup be distributed with every paid membership. Unfortunately, it turns out that custom logo coffee cups are relatively expensive. The cheapest price I could find was $10 (not including shipping). Although the price goes down when buying bulk, it isn't reduced all that much (about $8 each I think). Since we have no way of knowing how many people are actually interested in becoming a member, purchasing 100 coffee cups in bulk just won't work since we don't have $800 to spend on a bulk order. I even looked into purchasing our own thermal transfer printer for coffee cups, but they are quite expensive as well, at between $600 and $1200 (not including coffee cup blanks) which we also cannot afford. Therefore, we have settled upon providing a PSUBS lapel pin and bumper sticker free with your paid membership. For those that still want a coffee mug, clock, or something else, we will set up an account with cafe express or similar provider and let you order your own item at whatever the actual cost is. I expect numerous questions regarding membership. I have anticipated some below. Please try to ask any other questions on this discussion list so that everyone else can view the answer. If you have a question you want to ask privately, reply to my psubs email address and I will address your concerns. QUESTIONS / ANSWERS Q) What is the cost of PSUBS membership? A) $35.00 per year Q) What do I get with my membership? A) Tangible items include a membership card, lapel pin, and bumper sticker. In terms of services you receive, access to members-only discussion forums, discounts for various products and services as we negotiate them, discounts from the PSUBS online store, and anything else that we add. Got a suggestion for something else you want? Let me know and we'll try it. Q) When will *all* the membership features be available? A) We are working diligently to finish up the BIO and Project Area features. However, work on such is done part-time (usually evenings) after our "day" jobs are complete and time permits. I cannot provide a specific date of completion, but our target is now June 2009. Q) Is PSUBS.ORG only going to be available to members now? A) No, the vast majority of the website will remain public. However, expect some features to become members-only, such as providing web-space for project areas. Q) What happens to the publicly available mailing list (personal_submersibles@psubs.org) ? A) Nothing, except possibly a change to the name of the forum. This mailing list will remain in place and non-members will still have access to it. It's possible that the name may change to "questions" or "public-forum", but that has not been decided at this point. In any event, unless you remove yourself from this list, you will continue to receive mail from it and be able to participate in discussions associated with it. Furthermore, we expect that members will continue to monitor and participate in this list so that they can share their expertise with the general public as appropriate. One of the things we need to do, is to make sure our members with advanced knowledge help spread accurate information when questions from newcomers are sent to the public email forum. In general, "psubbers" should always attempt to help newcomers come up to speed. We all started with no knowledge and we all benefit when knowledge is delivered to others. However, we also expect that the bulk of advanced topics will occur within member-only forums because of the more targeted environment it provides. If the membership program is successful, you should expect that the public mailing list will become an entry point for general questions by newcomers. Newcomers are certainly welcome to hold detailed discussions, but we anticipate that most of the "expertise" for advanced topics will occur within member-only forums. Q) You say things will mostly stay the same. Yeah, maybe now, but what about the future? A) We have always had a commitment to sharing knowledge, not hoarding it. Especially when it comes to issues regarding safety and helping newcomers "learn the ropes". Ray and I share the same desire, to make as much information available to the public as possible. This has been the goal of PSUBS from day one, and we are not likely to change our philosophy after all this time. Q) What about existing photos and project space on the website? A) We still need to finish up the "photo" section that use to exist and is now under reconstruction. Anyone is welcome to submit a photo of their submersible and have it published on the web site, and all photos we currently have will eventually be published again. This is just a matter of time. Relative to project space, the current plan is that eventually only members will be able to obtain such project space on PSUBS.ORG and have photo-journals that document their work. Non-members will still be able to view member projects, but non-members who want to display their own projects will need to secure free web space with other providers such as frapper. Q) What about video? A) No changes here. We do not have the resources or bandwidth to feed video from PSUBS.ORG. Our video policy for everyone is the same. Find a provider where you can upload your video for free (youtube.com for example) and then send us a link to it. We will gladly publish a link to your submersible video whether you are a member or not. ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 53 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 53 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************