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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
Hi,
even since Alec introduced me to the V-tail, Ive been wanting to use one
on a sub. I was thinking that a small-ish V control surface mounted on
the nose/forward section of a submarine would provide great maneuverability.
You should be able to turn, left/right as well as climb/dive quicker than
the tail mounted control surfaces would allow. I was also thinking it would
be good if you could control the V angle, so they could go from folded
away, to flat (like regular dive planes), to V.
Cheers,
Ian.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 25, 2008 8:41 PM
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
>
>
>Dean, I found a couple more items. I'm having trouble finding a picture of the flaps open. I had one a while back.
>
>http://imageevent.com/albacore/albacorehistoricphotos;jsessionid=r9qabaad11.tiger_s?n=25&z=2&w=0&x=0&c=4&m=24&p=24"The parachutes were attached to the after end of Albacore's fairwater
>and successfully streamed while the ship was cruising submerged. The resulting
>deceleration curves indicated that such a system effectively aided in
>emergency recovery."
>Project "Bailout" might not have been the most successful of Albacore's
>tests but it certainly showed some creativity was at work."
>
>http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm
>
>Regards,
>
>Brent Hartwig
>
>
>From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:03:24 -0700
>
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>Dean,You could install some sort of stopping flaps (speed brakes) on both sides of your sub that are curved to fit the shape of your hull. Much like a US Navy test sub USS Albacore. Then operate them with hydraulics or adapted electric actuators starting with a unit like the Lenco Trim Tab actuators.
>
>I've been planning on having this type or braking system on my winged underwater gliding subs. With two stopping flaps on the training edge of the wings. One opening up, and one down at the same time."Built as a test bed for the U.S. Navy, the Albacore featured a
>tear-drop shaped hull, new diving controls, a dorsal rudder and a new
>high-yield steel for her pressure hull. In addition, the Navy, at one time
>or another, experimented with speed brakes, contra-rotating screws, a
>drag chute, camouflage paint and three different arrangements of stern
>control surfaces.The NSF report ignited debate within Navy circles over a variety of issues such as the merits of twin propellers vs. singles, and the sacrifice of surface stability for undersea speed. The result of the recommendations and ensuing debate was the U.S.S. Albacore.
>
>The Dorsal rudder was reinstalled and enlarged and the boat was outfitted with speed brakes. These brakes - another concept borrowed from aviation - technology, consisted of 10 hinged panels ringing the after part of the ship. When needed, they were hydraulically opened into the waterflow, bringing the boat to a rapid stop."http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Albacore_(AGSS-569)
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Brent Hartwig
>
>
>From: Recon1st@aol.com
>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0400
>Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air Tanks
>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
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>Frank I am using 12hp for my main propulsion. I gave up trying to calculate
>speed but I should have
>plenty. The reason for so much maneuverability is the bottom of Lake
>Superior many granite boulders
>etc. I will need to travel pretty fast to cover any amount of the Lake. I
>am thinking of a 20 to 30' above the
>bottom but at 6 knots or so when one of those big beast jumps up in front
>of me, I am going to need
>options. A transfer pump or sliding weight for sure would not fit my needs.
>I may even have an
>emergency sea anchor deployment for quick stops. Reverting back to my drag
>racing days.
>
>I loved the dry dive video. I learned much watching it maneuver I have
>greater confidence that my
>efforts should yield the kind of performance I am looking for. Not to
>mention it oughta be a real
>hoot to drive hehehhe
>
>Dean
>
>
>In a message dated 8/24/2008 8:15:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>ShellyDalg@aol.com writes:
>
> Hi Dean. I think you're chasing the right idea with front and back
> dive planes. I had considered that but let it go because of the extra work. It
> just seems to me that back dive planes would be a real plus if you have enough
> power to make them work. Did you see the "dry dive" videos? With the center
> mounted dive planes the sub stays level when ascending/diving but it would be
> nice to be able to angle the sub just with the dive planes. Like you say, much
> like flying. I don't know how much speed you'd have to get to make the dive
> planes overcome the front/back balance, but if it's close enough to neutral,
> it may not take that much power.
> Twin trim tanks front and back with a transfer pump would help if the
> pump was able to shift weight fast enough. Maybe a sliding drop weight would
> be less trouble to make. I will be able to shift the seat forward and
> backward a little and I'm hoping that will give me a little angle change.
> Damn, I wanna get this thing wet soon! Frank D.
>
>
>
>
>
> It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
>
>
>It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here.
>
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