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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps

Dean,

I found a couple more items. I'm having trouble finding a picture of the flaps open. I had one a while back.

http://imageevent.com/albacore/albacorehistoricphotos;jsessionid=r9qabaad11.tiger_s?n=25&z=2&w=0&x=0&c=4&m=24&p=24

"The parachutes were attached to the after end of Albacore's fairwater
and successfully streamed while the ship was cruising submerged. The resulting
deceleration curves indicated that such a system effectively aided in 
emergency recovery." 
Project "Bailout" might not have been the most successful of Albacore's
tests but it certainly showed some creativity was at work."

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm

Regards,
Brent Hartwig


From: brenthartwig@hotmail.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Stopping Flaps
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:03:24 -0700

Dean,

You could install some sort of stopping flaps (speed brakes) on both sides of your sub that are curved to fit the shape of your hull. Much like a US Navy test sub USS Albacore. Then operate them with hydraulics or adapted electric actuators starting with a unit like the Lenco Trim Tab actuators.

I've been planning on having this type or braking system on my winged underwater gliding subs. With two stopping flaps on the training edge of the wings. One opening up, and one down at the same time.

"Built as a test bed for the U.S. Navy, the Albacore featured a 
tear-drop shaped hull, new diving controls, a dorsal rudder and a new 
high-yield steel for her pressure hull. In addition, the Navy, at one time 
or another, experimented with speed brakes, contra-rotating screws, a 
drag chute, camouflage paint and three different arrangements of stern 
control surfaces.
The NSF report ignited debate within Navy circles over a variety of 
issues such as the merits of twin propellers vs. singles, and the sacrifice 
of surface stability for undersea speed. The result of the recommendations 
and ensuing debate was the U.S.S. Albacore.

The Dorsal rudder was reinstalled and enlarged and the boat 
was outfitted with speed brakes. These brakes - another concept borrowed 
from aviation - technology, consisted of 10 hinged panels ringing the 
after part of the ship. When needed, they were hydraulically opened into 
the waterflow, bringing the boat to a rapid stop."

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/albacore.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Albacore_(AGSS-569)


Regards,
Brent Hartwig


From: Recon1st@aol.com
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:55:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Air Tanks
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Frank I am using 12hp for my main propulsion. I gave up trying to calculate speed but I should have
plenty. The reason for so much maneuverability is the bottom of Lake Superior many granite boulders
etc. I will need to travel pretty fast to cover any amount of the Lake. I am thinking of a 20 to 30' above the
bottom but at 6 knots or so when one of those big beast jumps up in front of me, I am going to need
options. A transfer pump or sliding weight for sure would not fit my needs. I may even have an
emergency sea anchor deployment for quick stops. Reverting back to my drag racing days.
 
I loved the dry dive video. I learned much watching it maneuver I have greater confidence that my
efforts should yield the kind of performance I am looking for. Not to mention it oughta be a real
hoot to drive hehehhe
 
Dean
 
In a message dated 8/24/2008 8:15:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ShellyDalg@aol.com writes:
Hi Dean. I think you're chasing the right idea with front and back dive planes. I had considered that but let it go because of the extra work. It just seems to me that back dive planes would be a real plus if you have enough power to make them work. Did you see the "dry dive" videos? With the center mounted dive planes the sub stays level when ascending/diving but it would be nice to be able to angle the sub just with the dive planes. Like you say, much like flying. I don't know how much speed you'd have to get to make the dive planes overcome the front/back balance, but if it's close enough to neutral, it may not take that much power.
Twin trim tanks front and back with a transfer pump would help if the pump was able to shift weight fast enough. Maybe a sliding drop weight would be less trouble to make.  I will be able to shift the seat forward and backward a little and I'm hoping that will give me a little angle change. Damn, I wanna get this thing wet soon! Frank D. 



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