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Hi Joe,
I could not have said it any better than you have. I have
learned a tremendous amount from the sharing of this group.
Thanks for putting it so well.
Best Regards,
Jim K
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:40
PM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus
pictures/large subs
I remember my first post on this list in October 05, with
Hurricane Wilma approaching. All excited about the prospects of my first
concept,... a monstrously large ambient adaptation of Nemo's Nautilus. Eight
long days without power eagerly anticipating what the list may have thought of
my ideas, as outlandish as they may have been.
Oh what an education I
received from this list! In two years time, I had learned more about
submersibles than any amount of a lifetime of self-study would have provided.
Good, bad, and ugly, everything discussed on this forum has merit. Education
is priceless and I have seen no other high end activity, (aviation included),
where imagination and innovation combine to produce the results that I have
seen here, few as they may be.
No one should ever feel discouraged!
This is the best gathering of minds on the subject at
hand.
Joe
sopwith-baby.com
>
From: sjpearceqld@bigpond.com
> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus
pictures/large subs
> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:14:10 +1000
>
> Jon
>
> If you read Ian's post in the context in which
he made, his comments refer
> to 'certain Members' attitudes not the
Founders attitudes. This makes your
> defence of PSUBS as an
organisation unnecessary.
>
> In Ian's defence and in relation
to some of the attitudes a few list members
> have expressed towards big
subs you have 'missed it'. Given the time, I
> could cut and paste pages
of posts with negative or condescending reactions
> to a proposed large
sub or to a vessel under construction. Interestingly one
> list member
now investigating a potential hull for a large p-sub was the
> leader of
the pack sighting everything from problems with the depth of the
>
average harbour entrance to cost and maintenance factors associated
with
> larger boats. It's nice to see RJ has enjoyed an epiphany the
road to
> Damascus. :-)
>
> From the opposite point of
view there are many list members that have been
> excited and enthused
by the emergence of the bigger subs and have responded
>
positively.
>
> As to my comment about the 'K Cult' it was after
all tongue in cheek just
> like my comment about Brent's biblical hair
style and in fairness suggested
> that a K boat was an accessible and
affordable proven design with readily
> available plans. It would be
also fair to suggest that the convention
> attendees in general and the
longer term members would consist of a high
> number of K boat devotees.
I also note Psubs sell the plans. Although I
> don't know a lot about
him, I believe Kittredge and his boats were one of
> the founding
platforms associated with the inception of P-subs. Further, my
>
understanding is that the last convention was held in a location close
to
> his home and with his birthday in mind. Nothing wrong with that and
as you
> yourself stated to me in an email off list the organisation has
to be
> relevant to this core group some of which are experts in various
ways.
>
> In every respect these members will find big subs don't
represent their core
> values and may not be of interest. Fair enough!
My valid comment about a
> mute response was really expressing my
disappointment that someone like
> Peter who has given up so much that
most of us value, to achieve his goal,
> should receive such a mute
response. People like Peter and Carsten are our
> Champions and should
be celebrated just as much as Kittredge. I dear say if
> it was RJ or
another core conventionist launching a big sub the praise would
> be
lavish in comparison.
>
> This is just an opinion but in a nut
shell Jon, it is a shame more list
> members don't have the attitude you
have demonstrated with respect to these
> sub champions!
>
> Respectfully
>
> Steve Pearce
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
jonw@psubs.org
> Sent: Monday, 25 August 2008 4:15 AM
> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus
pictures/large subs
>
> Ian,
>
> If there's been a
negative reaction to the discussion of large home-made
> submersibles, I
guess I've missed it. From the perspective of PSUBS the
> organization,
I don't believe we have treated large subs any different than
> small
subs and I'm not aware of any large-sub projects that have been
>
restricted from using any of PSUBS resources. In terms of recognition,
both
> large sub projects that I'm aware of have received PSUBS awards.
Carsten
> Standfuss received a Kittredge Award for Euronaut, and Peter
Madsen received
> a Kittredge Award for Kraka. When Ray asks for 2008
nominations in
> December, there is nothing to stop Steve, Ian, or
anyone else from
> nominating Peter Madsen for another award to
recognize NAUTILUS. We have a
> link to Carsten's Euronaut website
at
> http://www.psubs.org/projects/standfuss. On August 18, at 11:14am,
I
> received private email from Peter Madsen asking if I would put
photos of the
> FREYA scuttling and video of NAUTILUS on PSUBS. That
work was complete
> within 12 hours, the last edits being finished at
11:44pm. I don't recall
> if I announced it that night or waited until
the next morning, but I know I
> sent an email out to the mailing list
to make you all aware of it. The
> video is at
http://www.psubs.org/video and the photos are at
>
http://www.psubs.org/photos/madsen
>
> The announcement of
Nautilus being put in water was made in May 2008 and it
> looks to me
like it got as much positive response from the mailing list as
> any
other announcement. Regarding Peter's statement on 8/22 encouraging
>
others not to be afraid of building big, what did you and Steve expect
the
> reaction to be? Surely you didn't expect that everyone would stop
what they
> were doing and retool to double or triple the size of their
projects. I
> didn't react to Peter's email for the same reason that Jim
cited, in that it
> simply isn't realistic for me to think of building
something the size of
> Nautilus or Euronaut. Peter says the workload is
far from proportional with
> the size. Ok, fair enough, but workload is
only one element of the project
> that has to be assessed. Time, money,
facilities, equipment, and storage
> location are all issues that are
very proportional to the size of the
> project. Building subs the size
of Nautilus and Euronaut require resources
> which are unattainable I
suspect by the vast majority of people who frequent
> this list. I
thought that was obvious and therefore not necessary to expand
> upon in
a follow up to Peters email.
>
>
> Jon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of irox
> Sent:
Saturday, August 23, 2008 6:25 PM
> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nautilus
pictures/large subs
>
>
>
> This is great vessel.
Many thanks to Peter for sharing his findings,
> experiences, pictures
and videos.
>
> Peter, the information you just shared is *very*
valuable to me - thanks!
> Hopefully, I can buy you a drink sometime.
;)
>
> As for the mute response, I've observed a fairly negative
reaction
> to the discussion for large home made submarines on the list.
At
> some point somebody seems to have defined a psubs as only having
one
> or two occupants and can be towed behind a pickup truck,
anything
> else is not acceptable. This is certainly why I'm hesitant
to
> discuss large subs on this list.
>
> Sometimes I think
maybe we should start another list where it's ok
> to discuss large
submarine issues. But I see psubs is quietly
> changing, and new
generation of psubs is being built and launched,
> most of them can
house the annual psubs convention.
>
> Stephen, you are also
building a large sub? I'd love to hear
> about it.
>
>
Cheers!
> Ian.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
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