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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
Sorry, this is off topic but the comment about shutting down the
internet before someone gets hurt made me remember something pretty
funny. I actually know someone who more or less tried to do that.
I was an IT consultant at an insurance firm when email was becoming
popular. My client banned the use of email by its employees. Why?
Because if an employee said something unauthorized such as criticizing a
nearby restaurant, it was sure to bring the restaurant's lawyers down
upon us. All written communications going outside the company had to go
through the legal department. Can you believe that was as recent as
1994?
I think there's great value to us in seeing and discussing what the
fellow in China has put together. I concur with everyone else it's a
death trap, and I also share others' dread of being legislated out of
existence. But I'd rather fight stupid legislation should it appear,
than fight an honest dreamer. When I notice safety risks in someone's
project, and I have an email address for them, I just write to them off
list and try to be diplomatic so they don't tune out the critique.
Thanks,
Alec
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From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
Goldstein
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:45 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
I'm all for shutting down the internet everywhere before someone gets
hurt :)
my $0.02 . One can build a dangerous sub due to lack of finances or
lack of education or lack of skill.
I think it is good for psubs to rail against what is obviously a
sub-optimal design...but maybe those are the absolute best materials he
can get...or maybe he has no idea that there are useful resources for
someone that wants to build his one sub.
I think its great if in addition to having some fun at the expense of
someone with possibly more courage than naval architecture skills we can
offer some design change recommendations on the off chance that he will
one day find the mailing list archive. Some have already been
mentioned, like additional strength members in the barrel etc. Advice
and and open exchange of information are what really makes this list so
interesting.
I'd certainly like to hear some design thoughts on a safe 10-30m 1ATM
sub for under $2K....
-andy
-----Original message-----
From: djackson99@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:36:02 -0700
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
>
> That's a great idea. This free exchange of ideas has gotten way out
of hand and some poor bystander is going to get hurt.?We can form a
committee to screen members ideas and make sure they are conforming to
our safety standards. You would think that the Chinese government would
stay on top of this, but I guess it's really up to us.
>
> And think of all the fun we can have.? We can enlarge photos, jump to
conclusions, and mock the stupidity of someone who thinks that $4500 and
a grade school education is all that is needed to build a sub.? Just
think how devastating it will be for PSUB's if some poor migrant worker
in China should die in a submarine.? We'll have regulations pouring down
on us. Or worse, what if he is successful. Oh my God! Can you imagine,
we'll wake up tomorrow and there will be hundreds of people in
developing countries inspired to be creative. Next thing you know we'll
realize how insignificant PSUBs really is.? Maybe we should block all
Internet access from China and put up a wall?
>
> God Bless America,
> those who protect the freedoms she provides, and the spirit of the
> courageous who forged her.
> Doug Jackson
> www.submarineboat.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: irox <irox@ix.netcom.com>
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Sent: Thu, 17 Jul 2008 1:12 pm
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm not sure if I'm miss reading, or if I just disagree with you. But
> I'll say I don't think anybody has to or should run there idea's by
> "knowledgeable member"
> before posting them to the list. A better idea is read the archives
> and see what was said about that idea 5 years ago, if you still think
> you have an un-answered question or something new to say on the topic,
> then go a head and post.
>
> Getting people to have thier idea's review by special members before
> being posting is a slippery slope. Also, it's kind of fun reviewing
> and responding to people's ideas, kind of unfair if one person to get
> all the fun. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Ian.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
> >Sent: Jul 17, 2008 9:18 AM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
> >
> >Jon,
> >
> >I concur. While we should not put a crimp on innovation, our primary
> >message should be safety. We have a variety of organizations that
> >review PSUBS from time to time and unless we maintain the high road
> >we will never hold respect or be able to fight detrimental imposed
> >regulations (if that time should ever come). I have seen a number of
> >hair brained ideas presented here over time and unfortunately a
> >new-comer does not have sufficient knowledge or experience to weed
> >the poor ideas out. Instead of presenting some questionable idea as
> >fact, it should be carefully worded, labeled by its author as
> >potentially unsound, and the author should ask for peer review.
> >
> >
> >
> >The barrel submersible is just a death trap waiting to happen. I
> >haven't looked at all of the Pilipenko sub videos but the first
> >immediately scared me as there was little reserve buoyancy in the
> >unit and it had a decided list once launched. Jon's identification
> >of the leaking port hole and air blast only confirms my opinion. It
> >is obvious that neither of these subs have had weight and balance
> >calculations done (it would be difficult to put enough ballast in the
> >barrel sub to keep the sail upright). Keep in mind the successful
submersible gets little press but a submersible accident is
> >sensational in nature so it gets loads of press. Better yet,
contact a
> >knowledgeable member offline first to run the idea by before
> >publishing it on the list server. Which one do you think legislators
> >and professionals will remember? The press will sort through PSUBS
> >email list and capitalize on every unworthy proposal.
> >
> >
> >
> >Safety should be the first word always in submersibles, innovation
> >can follow.
> >
> >R/Jay
> >
> >
> >
> >From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
> >jonw@psubs.org
> >Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:25 AM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
> >
> >
> >
> >Brent,
> >
> >
> >
> >I have to disagree with you on this one. It's great when we can
> >congratulate people who have built well designed and constructed
> >submarines in their backyard, and there are many who have. However,
> >I think we should be equally zealous about openly criticizing and
> >rejecting designs and construction techniques that are clearly not
> >safe. A cursory look at Xiangli's sub shows it is a text book
> >illustration of how not to build a sub. Only one publication got it
> >right and gave the following synopsis..."he claims the sub should be
> >quite safe. Coincidentally, the builders of the Titanic said pretty
much the same thing."
> >http://ralph.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=598774
> >
> >
> >
> >Here's a closer photo of the sub. Note the wires from the dive
> >planes, the hatch, and the hatch seal. This photo pretty much
> >confirms that the end cowel does not hold a ballast tank.
> >http://www.daylife.com/photo/0fzU7CUe5QgXF
> >
> >
> >
> >I have similar feelings about the Pilipenko sub and I think the
> >diving video we were pointed to was a sad documentation of
> >construction and testing techniques. The guy goes under water and
> >one of his viewports immediately starts a sizable leak. It's obvious
> >that he appears confused and a bit disorientated by the size of the
> >leak and then the blast of compressed air that hits him in the face
> >when something lets go after he overpressurizes it. If that viewport
> >had let go completely (must have been at least 8 inches in diameter),
> >that guy wasn't getting out of his sub. I may alone in this, but my
> >thinking is that a properly built submersible shouldn't have leaks
> >when it goes underwater with a human being in it. Something about
> >that scenario always raises a question with me about the integrity of
> >the vessel. And this wasn't a case of the hatch not being closed
tightly enough.
> >
> >
> >
> >The fact that these two owners obviously have limited resources is
> >one of the most important warnings that we as a group should be
> >issuing. If you don't have the resources to build a sub properly,
don't build it.
> >
> >
> >
> >Where are the safety concious individuals in this group? Why the
silence?
> >
> >
> >
> >Jon
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org]On Behalf Of Brent
> >Hartwig
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:43 PM
> >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Oil drum submarine
> >
> >You have to give the guy props for making his dream happen. He's only
> >planning to go to 10 meters according to the article. I would think
> >those drums could take that. Perhaps he has some internal ribbing or
> >other stiffeners we can't see. The end drums might be the MBT's.
> >
> >I don't really understand how the conning tower is attached and
reinforced.
> >
>
>
>
>
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