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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steering systems



A word to the wise. Pressurize any system like this with a spring loaded compensator to avoid water intrusion in your system. And the master-slave thing usually ends up with cylinders locking each other out, so you might want to think about a way to relieve or reverse pressure on your pistons to avoid same.
Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kocourek <kocpnt@tds.net>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 6:18 am
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steering systems

Hi Frank,
 
Your idea with slave/master cylider sounds good and I'm curuious about how it turns out.
 
One word of caution however! Stay away from ALL automotive parts. While they are fine parts and american and foreign use different fluids, hydraulic fluid will destroy the soft parts in short order. The correct fluids are hydroscopic and draw water and humidity toward themselves. This can be somewhat mitigated with the use of silicone fluids, however I think use of dedicated hydraulic system pieces will provide a much more reliable setup.
 
Many years ago we learned this the hard way on some small cars we were building.
 
Best Regards,
 
Jim K
 
---- Original Message -----
From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Steering systems

Hi Hugh. The outboards I've used had a cable system where the cable is wrapped around the steering column and runs to the back of the boat where it pulls the motor left and right. How does the hydraulics tie into this?
 My thought was to use pedals ( like brake pedals from a car) pushing master cylinders and the fluid transfer would go to the slave cylinders located out side the sub. The two pedals and corresponding cylinders will need to be tied together so that when one is pushed to extend, the other would retract.
The orifices would need to be drilled out to allow faster fluid transfer, but the pressure needed to push the cylinders would be much less than required to apply the brakes on a car. It won't take that much "push" to move the rudders or dive planes. The orifice size will determine how fast the cylinders extend. I don't think a standard master/slave cylinder set up from a car will have enough fluid capacity to do the job so I was thinking along the lines of using off-the-shelf hydraulic cylinders as master cylinders with about a pint or so of fluid capacity. The exterior/slave cylinders would be much smaller, maybe with a capacity of a few ounces. With the right linkage at the pedal, a 4 inch travel of the master cylinder should move the slave cylinder 4 inches as well, thereby turning the rudders or tilting the dive planes.
 The tie-in between the two systems could be a pressurized reservoir tank filled with fluid, with a check valve to prevent oil from flowing back into the tank.
 By pushing a pedal, you are transferring fluid from one part of the system ( master ) to the other ( slave ), but not pushing against the internal pressure of the system, just against the opposing cylinder and what ever resistance the rudder or dive plane adds. The reservoir pressure would be supplied by a scuba tank to keep the water from entering the system at the slave cylinders, and to keep the system filled with oil should some leak out at the seals.
All the thru-hulls would need valves so if a leak develops, shut off that line and motor up to the surface.
What do you think ? Could it work ? Anyway, I'm going to play with it and see what happens. I should be able to make a simple system on-the-bench to test what kind of pressure it takes to push the pedals and move the slave cylinders against a spring or counter weight. For a bench test, I could use just plastic tubing and jury rigged auto parts ( free is good ! ) to see if it's even viable. I'll keep the guys posted on what I find out. Frank D.
  




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