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Carsten, It sounds like they had to totally replace all the batteries twice, before they received a good batch. Some times that's just the way it is with very new technology. I'll forward your question how ever to verify. I've invited Brett to join the mailing list, and he said he would, so hopefully we will see him here shortly. Regards,
Brent Hartwig " Don't aspire to become irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted." ~ Unknown > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marian S201 Propulsion Data > From: MerlinSub@t-online.de > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:52:00 +0000 > > I came to the same conclusion.. > > ..my research for Li-Ion in Euronaut increase the underwater range 4 times more than lead-acid. > > But.. > > - the charger has to be +- 0,03 V for each cell the right Voltage otherwise it will not work. > - Battery electronic and chargers price can nearly double the battery prices. > - Battery price at the moment it higher than overall Boats cost. > > Will wait.. but for smaller boats it is maybe a nice solution even in the next years. > > If I understand the S201 operator right they have complete remove the > first battery set after the first operation because of some trouble? > > regards Carsten > > > > "Cliff Redus" <cliffordredus@sbcglobal.net> schrieb: > > Brent, > > This is good info back on the Valence lithium-phosphate batteries from a clients perspective. For the R300, for main bank, I use ten 12 VDC batteries wired in series for 120 VDC . This give me 12 kWhrs (assuming a Peukert Number of 1.08) as compared to S210 with 90 batteries yielding 150 kWhrs. With two additional batteries for emergency backup, the 12 batteries would cost me at least $33,000 plus the battery monitoring sensor! As such, I don't think I will be upgrading to Li-ion batteries any time soon. Reading between the lines, it sounds like you have be very careful in charging and discharging these batteries. It would be nice to know the maximum current you can safely pull through these batteries. I am hoping that with the increased demand from auto industry with hybrid cars, an affordable next generation battery technology will surface. Until then, I am sticking with my LifeLine AGM batteries. > > > > Great works are performed not by strength but by perseverance. > Samuel Johnson > > > > Cliff > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> > To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:41:31 AM > Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Marian S201 Propulsion Data > > > Greetings SMMO's, ;)' > > I received a very good and interesting response from Brett Phaneuf, who is the President of ProMare Inc.. I've included it below. > > If you can acquire the batteries in low quantity at the same price they got, they are still very expensive at the cost of $2,777.00 each. Ouch!!! > > > Regards, > Brent Hartwig > > > > Re: Marian S201 Submarine Li-ion Batteriesþ > From:brett@promare.org > Sent:Mon 1/21/08 7:56 PM > To: Brent Hartwig (brenthartwig@hotmail.com) > > > Brent, Please let Cliff know that R300 looks great and that we have been thinking of building something similar for fun, but we've been tied up doing other work with the Navy and haven't gotten around to it, but we'd love to learn more about his sub. That being said, we've had ups and downs with Valence batteries. The first run had to be replaced due to manufacturing flaws, as did the second run. That's180 batteries in all. The set we have now is the second generation of U-Charge series and they seem to be working well. I should say that we did get good performance out of the second run of the first-gen but they had some capacitance issues that can be traced, possibly, to impurities in the cells during assembly. Anyway, we've been very happy with the batteries and would recommend them with several caveats, those being that they are much more demanding i! n terms of charging and maintenance. Of course we have 90 on board with 150kWhrs of power and I'm assuming the > > R300 is only going to run 4 or so at a nominal 48VDC? Anyway, shouldn't be a problem to charge them, but you'll need a battery CPU to monitor them during charging and also discharge. I suppose if you were only using 4 you could just have the computer set up when you are charging and then just not worry about it when in operation, but then you would have no way to know if there was a problem developing or not in terms of heat or capacitance. That being said, it's really during charging, and not discharge (assuming you aren't pulling a crazy load) that you need to be very, very careful. We are looking at using the Epoch series but the next couple of subs in construction require greater power density than Valence can provide and we are working with another company to make use of a liquid polymer system that is considerably ! more expensive and more dangerous and something that CANNOT be! int he inhabited space. So, if you need more information we'd be happy > > to tell you what we can, but can't really comment on the use of S201 as it is primarily for research with the Navy. In short, I'd recommend the batteries from Valence but you need to go into it with your eyes open and remember that in many cases you will be learning on the job. > One more thing, cost.....I believe that for us the cost was somewhere around > $250,000 for the batteries. Again, we needed 90...no idea what 4 would cost you.. Hope this note finds you well and happily building submarines. Brett Quoting Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>: >> Dear Mr. Phaneuf> I'm apart of a international group of people that design and/or build there> own private, usually small submarines. http://www.psubs.org/ We are> interesting in the Marian ! S201, and in particular it's Li-ion batteries. We> have been looking at the Valence, U-Charge Li-ion batteries and soon to be> available Epoch Li-ion large batteries from Valence as well, to increase are> subs battery endurance. One of the most interesting subs to be recently> completed by one of the guys in are group is the R300. The designer and> builder is Cliff Redus, and he is one of the guys that would like to change> out his lead acid batteries for large Li-ion batteries.> http://www.psubs.org/projects/redus/If it's not a big trade secret, we would> like to > > know what brand and model of batteries you used in the Marian S201.> Also if possible knowing the price of the batteries and supplier would be> very helpful in deciding if they are a financial option for certain projects.> Regards,> Brent Hartwig 'Amateurs built the! Ark, Professionals built the> Titanic.' ~Unknown&g! t;&g t; > > > > |