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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gas piping through hull



Hi Frank,

As you know, not all epoxies are created equal.

"If you are making an electrical through-hull, the nipple method is more leak proof than either the disk or thread-o-let method. The nipple is filled with epoxy, and I can't see how that would leak."

"Epoxy may make it difficult to change out a valve or fitting, and because it has a different rate of expansion/contraction than the associated parts, it may fail."

I agree with your point of using something more flexible then a hard epoxy type product to seal threads, but epoxy in a nipple for potting an electrical thru-hull can leak depending on the design and mass of the different parts involved, along with temperature and depth of dive. But for the depths your likely to go to, you shouldn't have any trouble with your plan.  Look at Dan H's potted electrical thru-hulls. They are some of the best I've seen.

I wonder if there is a good
slightly flexible alternative to epoxy for potting electrical thru-hulls, like Sika Flex or the like? Perhaps even put a layer of Sika Flex in the item to be potted, and then once that is cured pour in the epoxy. You can also machine in some grooves in the metal part to be potted to help the Sika Flex seal out water even better. This way the epoxy will act like a mini conical acrylic view port in a conical seat, sealed by a flexible sealant.

Regards,
Brent




From: ShellyDalg@aol.com
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 13:21:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] gas piping through hull
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Hi Guys. Cliff brings up a good point. The use of thread-o-lets is an accepted practice on pressure vessels of all types, and the forged ones can withstand lots of pressure.
The '' disk'' method also has some important advantages if you have plans to change/modify/add to a particular area. This ''disk'' area MAY have a greater risk of leakage past an ''O'' ring but definitely would make it easier to change.
Overall, I think the thread-o-lets are strongest, but also the hardest to change.
I have chosen a compromise solution by using the nipples. Maybe not quite as strong as the female thread-o-lets back to back on the hull, but the nipples have some advantages.
A schedule 80 nipple is much stronger than the surrounding hull, so I don't see strength as a problem. A male nipple can be repaired/re-threaded easily if some damage were to occur. Total replacement is a little harder than the disk method, but less trouble than the Thread-o-let method. If you are making an electrical through-hull, the nipple method is more leak proof than either the disk or thread-o-let method. The nipple is filled with epoxy, and I can't see how that would leak. I have a rough sketch on frappr showing the basic components.
As for Dean's use of epoxy on the threads, I'm not sure that's a good idea.( sorry Dean )  That may cause some problems and JB isn't really designed for that application so I doubt there is any reliable data on this use. There are several good, tried and true, well documented marine grade pipe dopes available that would work better. Epoxy may make it difficult to change out a valve or fitting, and because it has a different rate of expansion/contraction than the associated parts, it may fail. A sealing compound should remain flexible and also act as a lubricant, especially when you have two or more types of material joined with a sealant between them.
One more thing to consider, stainless threads on stainless threads can ''gall'' or basically get really screwed up and a ''stainless specific'' sealer should be used in this case. I am using brass ball valves on the inside because they are less expensive, but more importantly, because the brass threads seal better against the stainless nipples than either stainless or steel valves. The softer brass material forms to the corresponding threads of the nipple, making a very tight seal, and the two materials when joined, don't ''bond'' or get stuck. Replacement or ''snugging down'' is easy. If a little seepage occurs on the inside while submerged, a little more torque with a wrench should stop it, at least enough to get back to the surface for a more complete investigation and repair. Frank D.  




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