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Peter Peter
Peter,
I'd use paint balls to shoot you,
but I'm fresh out. ; )' Some how I missed it, or it went right over my
head, but I don't see the insult. But yes America still has loads of can do
spirit. However we are by no means the only ones. Between you and Carsten,
you guys were making Europe more PSUB heavy. But with Ian's new 200 ton boat in
the works on this side of the globe, we will have some weight to throw around
again. My personal dream live aboard sub is currently laid out to have a 11 foot
OD pressure hull and weigh 160 tons. Is that big enough for ya Peter
?? Do you think I can put your Nautilus inside it for
safe keeping? I needed more room for the aquarium
in the galley to keep my sushi fresh, and room for a decent sized
sauna. ; )' But I'm still going to start in miniature and work my way
up. RC sub miniature that is.
"What would
like be if we had no courage to attempt anything?"
~ Vincent van Gogh
Cheers,
Brent
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:18
AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Size of
pusbs.
Hi Brent,
You ask:
"How big of a diesel motor do
you suppose Cliff could fit in his R300?? ;)'
But of cause - I just
wrote the post in a general sence, and psubs do range
in size from less
than 300 kg to more than 60 tonnes.The little Freya at 3.5
ton was diesel
powered to begin with - and what really makes the limit is
when the
waterline get too short for surfaced speeds of more than say 3
knots (
that would be 4 -5 meters waterline )
As for size in general - the
added cost in time and materials when
increasing the size of a psub seems
to me to largely offset by the reduction
in troubling miniature work. As a
result construction time of 32 ton UC-3
will like be less than for 6.5 ton
Kraka. I don't spend more time on it pr.
week than I did when building
Kraka with Claus, but I can walk inside !
I do understand the
need for a trailer submarine if you live in Utah, and
that might be to
small for hybrid propulsion. Okay. But if you are lucky to
live within
driving distance of the sea - having a sub that is always in
water is
quite practical and in that type of operation size - and thus
diesel
propulsion becomes feasible.
Most psubs that I know of are type K250 or
the like...and if their builders
make that size of boat because that is
what they want - then its the only
right decision. But if it is because
they feel that they cannot find the
hours to make a bigger boat...then
they may be misunderstanding that
miniaturizing is very expensive.
Min
point in short - a bigger psubs is not always a bigger project - it may
in
fact be easier done than a miniature. So why worry ? Think BIG !
May I
remind you that many of you live in the proud nation that put a man on
the
moon ? ( now all psubbers will arm their torpedotubes and lock them on
me...)
By the way, I have newer really paid a harbor fee - with a
little luck your
submarine will be so mystic and fun that the harbor will
not charge you.
- This said - what I like about psubs is the enormous
span in different ways
of solving the same puzzle,
and that you can be
in the game with all sorts of background, size,
resources
ect.
Shoot me !
Best regards,
Peter Madsen
-----
Original Message -----
From: Brent Hartwig
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence
Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery/ Hyman
G.
Rickover
Peter,
Who needs a warm submarine. ; )' I
have two of those Hoovers I could send
Fed EX in the morning if you like,
but they need a little work done on there
paint jobs since I didn't think
pink is your favorite color.
How big of a diesel motor do you suppose
Cliff could fit in his R300?? ;)'
Cheers,
Brent
----- Original
Message -----
From: Peter Madsen
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent:
Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence
Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery/ Hyman
G.
Rickover
Sirs,
Definetly "worth following" - but let me just
ask - why do we like improwed
batteries ?
Lead acid batteries are
old facion, they are heavy and energy content is
low. These new batteries
are - perhaps less heavy, and the energy content is
still quite
low.
My point is - that noting in the imagineble future of batteries
will ever
come close to giving us an electric submarine with a range to
transit to and
from ofshore dive sites in the facion that a diesel -
electric boat can do.
I am instaling a 1.5 ton battery in UC-3 - costing a
fortune - and it gives
me less than an hour of the output of the
dieselengine - that uses about 12
liters of fuel pr. hour. Meaning 1500 kg
lead acid = 10 kg dieselfuel. If
the super Li-ion comes - and stops
exploding and gets economicly
accesseble - the figures may be 750 kg battey
= 10 kg dieselfuel. Electric
endurance only still is very limeted. Part two
- I enjoy the waste heat from
the diesels - electric boats tend to be quite
cold.
Worth following, yes ofcause, but this is not the answer to range
as such.
Only Adm. H. Rickovers politically chritical system and the good
old diesels
can do that.
Some hover manufator of the 1950ies clamed
that in the next decade ( the
60ies ) most hovers for home use would be
nuclear powered - so no need for a
wire. If anybody here knows where I can
get a few of those hovers !!!
Best regards,
Peter
Madsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Redus
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent:
Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence
Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery
Brent,
These Valence
Technology Epoch Li-Phosphate batteries look interesting to me
as a way to
increase battery capacity and life as compared with AGM
batteries I
am now using. In my boat I use ten 12V AGM batteries each rated
at
100 Ah that weigh 65 lbs each for my main battery pack. They make
a
model E27 which has the same form factor as the batteries I am using
that
has a capacity of 122 Ah and weighs only 41 lbs. As an example
as a direct
replacement in my boat I would get 22% more capacity with a
weight reduction
of 37% for the same 10 batteries. I can use the same
onboard battery
charger as I use for my AGM batteries and if you believe
the manufacturer,
have a cycle life 2000. The manufacturer does not
say anything about
venting gases during charging. With a 2-3 hour
charge time, this would
significantly reduce the turn around time between
dives for my boat. It
will be interesting to see what they sell for
when they go on sale in March
of 2008. There battery management
unit also looks interesting as it will
feed SOC data directly into my
onobard PLC. This new battery technology is
worth
following.
Cliff
----- Original Message ----
From: Brent
Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To:
PSUBSorg <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent:
Tuesday, January 1, 2008 6:11:42 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence Epoch
Li-ion Full-size Battery
This is the third generation product we can
look forward to.
http://www.valencecom/assets/pdf/evs_faq.pdf
Regards,
Brent
Hartwig
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