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[PSUBS-MAILIST] Size of pusbs.
Hi Brent,
You ask:
"How big of a diesel motor do you suppose Cliff could fit in his R300?? ;)'
But of cause - I just wrote the post in a general sence, and psubs do range
in size from less than 300 kg to more than 60 tonnes.The little Freya at 3.5
ton was diesel powered to begin with - and what really makes the limit is
when the waterline get too short for surfaced speeds of more than say 3
knots ( that would be 4 -5 meters waterline )
As for size in general - the added cost in time and materials when
increasing the size of a psub seems to me to largely offset by the reduction
in troubling miniature work. As a result construction time of 32 ton UC-3
will like be less than for 6.5 ton Kraka. I don't spend more time on it pr.
week than I did when building Kraka with Claus, but I can walk inside !
I do understand the need for a trailer submarine if you live in Utah, and
that might be to small for hybrid propulsion. Okay. But if you are lucky to
live within driving distance of the sea - having a sub that is always in
water is quite practical and in that type of operation size - and thus
diesel propulsion becomes feasible.
Most psubs that I know of are type K250 or the like...and if their builders
make that size of boat because that is what they want - then its the only
right decision. But if it is because they feel that they cannot find the
hours to make a bigger boat...then they may be misunderstanding that
miniaturizing is very expensive.
Min point in short - a bigger psubs is not always a bigger project - it may
in fact be easier done than a miniature. So why worry ? Think BIG !
May I remind you that many of you live in the proud nation that put a man on
the moon ? ( now all psubbers will arm their torpedotubes and lock them on
me...)
By the way, I have newer really paid a harbor fee - with a little luck your
submarine will be so mystic and fun that the harbor will not charge you.
- This said - what I like about psubs is the enormous span in different ways
of solving the same puzzle,
and that you can be in the game with all sorts of background, size,
resources ect.
Shoot me !
Best regards,
Peter Madsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Brent Hartwig
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery/ Hyman
G. Rickover
Peter,
Who needs a warm submarine. ; )' I have two of those Hoovers I could send
Fed EX in the morning if you like, but they need a little work done on there
paint jobs since I didn't think pink is your favorite color.
How big of a diesel motor do you suppose Cliff could fit in his R300?? ;)'
Cheers,
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Madsen
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery/ Hyman
G. Rickover
Sirs,
Definetly "worth following" - but let me just ask - why do we like improwed
batteries ?
Lead acid batteries are old facion, they are heavy and energy content is
low. These new batteries are - perhaps less heavy, and the energy content is
still quite low.
My point is - that noting in the imagineble future of batteries will ever
come close to giving us an electric submarine with a range to transit to and
from ofshore dive sites in the facion that a diesel - electric boat can do.
I am instaling a 1.5 ton battery in UC-3 - costing a fortune - and it gives
me less than an hour of the output of the dieselengine - that uses about 12
liters of fuel pr. hour. Meaning 1500 kg lead acid = 10 kg dieselfuel. If
the super Li-ion comes - and stops exploding and gets economicly
accesseble - the figures may be 750 kg battey = 10 kg dieselfuel. Electric
endurance only still is very limeted. Part two - I enjoy the waste heat from
the diesels - electric boats tend to be quite cold.
Worth following, yes ofcause, but this is not the answer to range as such.
Only Adm. H. Rickovers politically chritical system and the good old diesels
can do that.
Some hover manufator of the 1950ies clamed that in the next decade ( the
60ies ) most hovers for home use would be nuclear powered - so no need for a
wire. If anybody here knows where I can get a few of those hovers !!!
Best regards,
Peter Madsen
----- Original Message -----
From: Cliff Redus
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery
Brent,
These Valence Technology Epoch Li-Phosphate batteries look interesting to me
as a way to increase battery capacity and life as compared with AGM
batteries I am now using. In my boat I use ten 12V AGM batteries each rated
at 100 Ah that weigh 65 lbs each for my main battery pack. They make a
model E27 which has the same form factor as the batteries I am using that
has a capacity of 122 Ah and weighs only 41 lbs. As an example as a direct
replacement in my boat I would get 22% more capacity with a weight reduction
of 37% for the same 10 batteries. I can use the same onboard battery
charger as I use for my AGM batteries and if you believe the manufacturer,
have a cycle life 2000. The manufacturer does not say anything about
venting gases during charging. With a 2-3 hour charge time, this would
significantly reduce the turn around time between dives for my boat. It
will be interesting to see what they sell for when they go on sale in March
of 2008. There battery management unit also looks interesting as it will
feed SOC data directly into my onobard PLC. This new battery technology is
worth following.
Cliff
----- Original Message ----
From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: PSUBSorg <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2008 6:11:42 AM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Valence Epoch Li-ion Full-size Battery
This is the third generation product we can look forward to.
http://www.valencecom/assets/pdf/evs_faq.pdf
Regards,
Brent Hartwig
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