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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured./sensors
Peter
I completely agree with your observations as to how stealthy a conventional
submarine can be.
Australia's Collins Class subs have positively embarrassed the US navy in
various exercises by scoring hits on Nuke boats and Carriers (USS Ronald
Reagan) repeatedly, completely undetected and escaped after letting its
weapons loose on the targets.
In the last RIMPAC exercises the only way the US Navy kept track of HMAS
Rankin (Collins Class Sub) was by deploying dipping sonar from helicopters
from the time she left the dock. As soon as a US destroyer came close enough
it provided enough noise that they lost her once again with two helicopters
deployed.
I'm not having a crack at the US navy as the Collins Boats embarrass the
Australian Navy in the same way, but to say submarine detection is well
advanced as a skill possessed by the navies of NATO or ANZUS countries is
demonstrateably untrue.
Regards
Steve Pearce
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Peter Madsen
Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2007 11:09 AM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured./sensors
Sirs,
How wonderfull a world we live in...
ASW is posible - if you know where to look and acturally do it. NObody would
look after us if we loaded a ton of hash in Copenhagen and shipped it to
greenland where the locals pay ten times the street cost in Copenhagen.
What stunnes me is how much you belive in authorities - in Carstens case he
is excused because he is German - but the others -
ASW is compareble to walking in a at night in jungle with a flashlight. If
you point it by chance the right way - you will look in to the eyes of a
snake - but mostly - all you see is trees trees and more trees...
Do you imagine - that someone constantly listenes to all sound contacts - in
e.g. coastal US waters - and compares the number of sound contact with the
number of ordinery boats ?!
Do you know how much such survailance cost ?!
Do you really belive what the US navy claims to be able to do - just because
they say so ?
I can - 100 % guarentied - dive directly into our navys main base in
Copenhangen and surface - and only then will they realice they have a
visitor. Why - because they are not expecting U47 and Gunter Prien...
I have sailed surfaced down the Copenhagen habor with a live, Sidewider size
missile on my back deck - everbody smiled and took pictures - how could they
know it was sceintific sounding rocket and not a weapon ?
People - are exceptinally stupid - until they are hit by fact - as in the
case of september 11 th...
I have - closed to the HMS Invincible - a Royal Navy aircraft carrier - with
none noticing the uboat until I said "hello !" up the hatch. They were not
expecting a midget submarine...ergo I could have dropped a mine on her
side - and retreated safe to enjoy the sight of the Invincibles
sinking...one the mine detonated below her hull augmented by the seabed...
Once onboard the carrier I asked what measures they had against underwater
threads - and was informed that they vere unprotected against midget
submarines. HMS Shoot me...
I have surfaced five meters from a German Type 206 Alpha submarine - to the
crews astonishment - they later visited Freya -
Why are submarines continuing in planing and construction worldwide -
because they are effective stealth weapons - as in the past, today and in
the foreseble future.
Frankly - dont belive what ASW people happen to claim when they ask the
congress for money...
Regards,
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: <clientes@tolimared.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Yet another "drug" sub captured./sensors
> Hi Carsten Peter,
>
> Yep carsten, this is more or less the level what sensor technology we are
> talking about...Just to complete... Hubble space telescope which is the
> civilian version of spy satelites can detect the light of a car in paris
> from united states - in all kind of wavelenght...radar satelites can look
> how much rock dust contains ice cap on mars 3 km below surface...a
> colombian admirals smiles about the remote possibility of a submarine
> sliping trough sensors - when it is made out of concrete - not of steel
> which already was easy to find by early magnetic sensors...colombian navy
> makes physiologic studys on whales that include heart beat and breath
> data without closing in on disturbance distance...I can see a chart of
> blue and gray whale distribution in bering sea on internet (cortesy of US
> navy). A us navy admiral says in history channel - they did not know it,
> but no soviet submarine came out of our sensor range at any time in any
> ocean for a single day during whole cold war EVER ! - declassified info
> !!!
>
> As somebody who lives in colombia i also know that there is a treaty
> unique of its kind - between colombia and United States that allows US
> warships to enter colombian territorial waters with no restriction to
> deploy that kind of sensors, - to hunt freely so to say - i find a
> submariners cap "USS Boston nuclear submarine" on my beach in Tolu when
> having my vacations...
>
> Smugglers are professionals they know that things at least as detailed as
> we do.
> And they have experience what works and what not.
>
> It is easier to disappear a 25 ton container on a freighter containing
> thousands of containers and staying in port for 1 day on a tight shedule
> leaving customs with a impossible search task - you have just to delete a
> record in the database a secretary will do the favor. - not to fight
> against all the sensors that WW2 and cold war and billion of dollars of
> military investigation brought up in just that point - detect submarines.
>
> If you had to make a list of US navies most loved and trained scenarios
> the colombian coke submarine would be on top together with the arab bomb
> submarine...
>
> So to speak with carsten where would be your money if you have to bet -
> mine would be 99% for the hunter - if you had a AKULA or similar.
>
> Coke and bomb submarines szenarios will keep poping up when it comes to
> justify navy and satellite budgets in US congress - but similar to
> bigfoot, UFO, Nessi, and company real world is a different case...
>
> Cheers, Wil
> (concretesubmarine.com)
>
>
> Quoting MerlinSub@t-online.de:
>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> A friend of mine is a physican. He told me some 15 years ago that there
>> is a machine in a basement of a University Labatory in Hamburg. Huge
>> and cooled down with liquied helium for 4000 euro a month
>> running cost. And able to detect any nuke sub running under the pole -
>> and from Hamburg..
>>
>> And there are satelitts available which meassure the seawave heigh by
>> graphity..
>> Other one meassure the deep of the sea bottom by radar.
>>
>> And I can see wrecks of ships in not so deep water by google eath
>> satellit pictures..
>> And they have only 30 % or less resolution of what are possible..
>>
>> And any harbour can be protected by a simple magnetic loop on the
>> floor - even the hole Florida coast if nessesary. The harbour of
>> singapur has that and even Gibraltar has one since 1942!
>>
>> The US underwatermicrophone system was able to detect the remains
>> unhappy USS Scorpion over a distance of 3000 sm. And they detect the
>> explosion of the russian sub also.
>>
>> I52 was detectet by sonar microphones from a aircraft in 1944 - than hit
>> by a microphone Torpedo, launched from the same aircraft. The operator
>> of the aircraft make a tape with the noise of the electric motors and
>> propellers of the sub, the splasch of the torpedo launching and the
>> sound of the running torpedo and the sound of the impact, explosion and
>> suinking of the sub. And i hear that tape on the internet in 2005!
>>
>> I myself found yust last year a wreck MIG17 jetaircraft which less mass
>> and size than Kraka with a side scan sonar woth of about 20.000 and 15
>> years old.
>>
>> The found just some years ago a wreck of a uboat of teh norwegian
>> coastline - on the sidescan pictures you can see even the hatches of the
>> liferaft containers on there superstructure!
>>
>> If I today have the chooise between the hunter and the smuggler I vote
>> 75% for the hunter.
>>
>> regards Carsten
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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>
>
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