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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery



Uncompensated:
"Doc" the creator of the Bionic Dolphin has sold me on Optima AGM batteries.  He has had them down to 150 feet, completely exposed to the pressure.  He only sealed the terminals with "E6000" urethane sealant available at Ace Hardware. Doc retired one of these batteries after 9 years of service.
Compensated: (From ROV group):
"Pressure test a Gel cell to 3000 ft - Done actually went to 12,500 ft
Our backup battery when we filmed Ghosts of the Abyss was a gel cell
battery with Power Sonic. We made a container with a bladder that was
filled with mineral oil.. Heavier than lithium polymer but safer and
cheaper. -AD 
Adrian DeGroot"

--Doug J
Tulsa, OK


-----Original Message-----
From: Emile van Essen <emile@airesearch.nl>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 1:53 pm
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery

Some of my battery experience :
 
-The sgt. Peppers (outside) lead /acid battery and thrusters are pressure compensated by a scuba regulator. Works fine but sometimes  little water enters the system.
Never felt an explosion in salt (brak) waters
 
-Because the thrusters and battery’s are interconnected, hydrogen can enter the thrusters. Despite ventilation , once a thrusters did “whoem” when started.
 
-once we forget to seal the tow loose connectors from the battery’s to the hull: the 6 mm contact corroded trough in 30 minutes! Yes the hull should be not connected to the negative pole to prevent excessive corrosion.
 
-A 14 AH motorbike battery failed .The battery was overloaded when it had to crank a 160 ampere turbine starter. It blowed out large quantity of corrosive steam. I don’t like to happen this at 100 meters with a 200AH battery………… Another reason to have scuba gear onboard
 
-I regard closed gel batt. saver for inboard use, but the Nemo crew encountered a near explosion when the automatic charger fails to swith off.  They had round battery’s!
 
Regards, Emile
 
Ps. Does anybody know til how deep you can use an uncompensated gel battery?  If the air chamber is small enough….
 
 
 

Van: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] Namens Brent Hartwig
Verzonden: woensdag 8 augustus 2007 17:52
Aan: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Onderwerp: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery
 
 
I believe, I believe. ; )
 
So why didn't my battery explode when submerged in saltwater? Did it need more time submerged then five minutes?



Brent

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 10:45:12 -0400
From: vbra676539@aol.com

Brent, A battery WILL explode from internal pressure during a direct short to ground, ie., itself, if submerged in fluid that provides pole to pole xfer! Drop a wrench across the positive and negative poles (from a distance) if you don't believe it. I've seen the results. Vance


-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Sent: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:05 am
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery
Good Evening Vance,
 
Thank you for taking the time to post the below information. True I don't plan to use lawnmower batteries in my subs. I used that battery for a number of reasons; it's a 12 volt DC none sealed lead acid battery, basically like most batteries used in private subs in the past and present, it would be cheap to replace if damaged in the test, smaller battery = smaller explosion and/or shock, and it's what I had in hand. I would expect a larger non sealed lead acid battery to respond in the same basic way. I did the test to learn how to be safe in a submarine, and so I could design as safe of a sub as I could. For safety, I filled the bucket remotely from over 50 feet away, and behind a corner of the house, and the bucket was 30 feet from the house on concrete. When I did the jumper cable test, the battery was 6 feet away from me on the other side of the bucket, and I was wearing allot of protective clothing and a full face shield in case the battery e! xploded and through battery acid at me. When ever I work on a battery, or use jumper cables, I use protective eye wear at a bare minimum. I don't know how many times I've done and seen car engine compartments, including the battery, pressure washed with no apparent ill affects on the battery, or the person doing the washing nor the dogy in the window.
 
Having a battery explode in a enclosed hardened container, is not the same as it exploding in an open area.  If I put a cup of gun powder on the concrete and light it remotely, you'll get a big flash and not much else. Now if you put that same amount of powder in a hard container, like a pipe with threaded end caps, you now have a whole nother animal. Hydrogen and/or chlorine gas exploding in a sealed contain because they got lit from a fuse is not the same as having a battery in the compartment with you, and it getting covered with water, unless you light the gas(s) some how after they build-up. In that story the gas exploded from a fuse igniting it, not just the batteries exploding on there own.
 
Time will tell if my mower battery is toasted, but I don't think it would be damaged, since myself and many others use larger and smaller batteries of all kinds to produce colloidal silver and hydrogen by way of electrolysis by using electrodes. Much like I did with the jumper cables. These batteries get drained over time, but nothing else. We just charge them again and again. I would highly suspect that having the battery submerged does the same basic thing, and just slowly drains the battery by producing hydrogen and oxygen tell spent. It's very true that a higher voltage and amperage system would produce allot more hydrogen and oxygen faster, of which I wouldn't want to be around, but that in and of it's self is not an explosion of the battery(s) until it gets ignited some how by something else besides the battery. I would think it would take some time to fully discharge the batteries in that manor. Now h! aving batteries directly connected with wires that can act as an heating element would be very uncomfortable, if the fuses and/or ground fault protector(s) didn't work correctly.
 
Now I didn't touch the jumper cable ends together underwater while the battery was submerged, and I didn't open and expose the battery acid to the water. So that is another matter. That would be testing the battery submerged while under load, if I touched the cable ends together above or below the water or hooked them up to a car light or a electric motor. Having the battery by it's self submerged and producing hydrogen and O2 off the negative post, I would think could be considered testing while under a light load, depending on the salt and/or mineral content of the water.
 
Regards,
 
Brent Hartwig
 

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Real Live Submerge Testing on a 12 Volt Lawnmower Battery
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:29:12 -0400
From: vbra676539@aol.com

                   "Do or do not,        There is no try"
                                  
                                                                                  ~  Yoda
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