RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement

["Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>]

Jay,

Dialing in depth control with the thrusters, truly catches my interest! I 
remember reading about something IVC Corp calls "auto hover" for their 
ambients...I will look at that again.

Besides the surface maneuvering issue, (which I think is well resolved with 
the addition of the dedicated lateral). Something has been bothering me 
about depth keeping (dynamic stability) while transiting mid-water or 
periscope depth at critical speed, (below 2 kts).

The worry is pitch oscillatory behavior and the "Chinese Effect" referenced 
to in the textbooks. I don't want to "chase the glide slope needle" and, you 
know what I mean by that! :)

The sailplanes are fixed and mostly for effect, (it's not NR-2 without 
them). I could rotate the mains and their surfaces but, this is complex 
linkages and moving parts.

If I have to complicate something, why not the thrusters and do away with 
planes (except rudder) altogether!!!

Joe





> From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
> Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:55:58 -0400
>
> Joe,
>
> James suggestion of proportional control is on the money.  Another
> consideration for depth control associated with a proportional joystick
> arrangement is an on-edge dial which is used to dial in the depth you want
> to maintain.  This makes driving the sub underwater much easier, especially
> mid-water.  As you know, planes and rudder control are ineffective below 2
> kts.  This type of control is regularly utilized on tourist submersibles 
> and
> ROVs.
>
> R/J2
>
>
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Jay K. Jeffries
>
> Andros Is., Bahamas
>
>
>
> A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Lil Brother LLC
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:21 PM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] NR-2 Thruster Arrangement
>
>
>
> Joe,
>
>
>
> I just noticed (the light finally went on) about something you posted
>
> earlier:
>
>
>
> "Directional control one hand....rate (current flow) the
>
> other. Joystick back all four thrust downward for rise, joystick
>
> forward all thrust upward for descent."
>
>
>
> I would probably do this different. If done in the appropriate manner, the
>
> controls could be setup proportionally. The further you pushed the
>
> stick...the faster the movement would happen(well the more thrust in that
>
> direction would happen).
>
>
>
> This would simplify your controls greatly. One hand doing thruster control
>
> (up, down, left, right, and spin about it's vertical axis), and the other
>
> hand handling the rudder(possibly differential primary drive motors)  and
>
> primary drive motors. This does depend on the method of rudder control and
>
> the extent that you are willing to take the control system. This would make
>
> the system totally in both hands other than ballast control, which could be
>
> done as well, but that can be discussed later.
>
>
>
> This doesn't simplify the surfaced maneuvering problems of the vessel. You
>
> could put an additional button to enable the horizontal thruster for 
> surface
>
>
> operations(this would also disable the x thrusters). Then the standard
>
> controls could be used.
>
>
>
> All of this sounds expensive, but it can be done much cheaper than most
>
> people think. Hence the reason I want to help. Plus I need a project to 
> help
>
>
> with.
>
>
>
>
>
> James Long
>
> Owner/Designer
>
> Lil Brother LLC (Instrument Division)





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