Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Pat's Group

Hello Brady,

Yes I was a part of Pat's group some time back with my username being Szybowski. Yes I have whack ideas about submarine designs from time to time. Perhaps something good will come from my strange ideas in the field of submarines, perhaps not. But in other areas of my life some of my strange ideas have panned out and so I will likely always look into them and see what others think about them, and then sort it all out. Some times I see right away that an idea will work or not work, and other times it takes a very long time to get to that point. Some times a new product or process makes an old dead idea come back to life again.

Some times people don't like it when you disagree with them and they consider it arguing. I think of these groups as places to test your ideas in an academic manor. If I don't agree with ones ideas, or statements, I won't just say that's a bad idea. I will tell them why I disagree, in a non emotional manor, and then they can respond and enlighten me on areas they think I missed.

As for Pat, it's not clear why he chose to take a negative path towards me. For most of the time I was on his forum they were discussing what type of drag his mini Nautilus would have, weather surface or submerged. He wanted to know this so he could get a close guess as to the speed he could get with his squirt drive and/or Minn Kota thruster. A couple of times I had talked with him about putting his mini Nautilus into a 3D model either by doing a digital scan to get a point cloud or taking allot of measurements and manually inputting the data. We decided that a digital scan wasn't an option and he asked if I could go off of the pictures he already had posted on his site and then he would take some measurements. We wanted to do this so I could put the 3D model in a external fluid flow analysis program I have in Solidworks, to get the drag data.

I started by using some older pictures he had of the sub when it was called the hyper sub. I did some basic modeling to get the pressure hull shape so I could start adding all the extras. I spent a fair bit of time working on this, and was excited to be doing it. I sent him some pics of the work I had started, stating I know it's not exact, since I don't have any measurements yet, but you can see where we can start, and all hell broke loose. He acted as if he had never asked me to work on the model and said everything was all wrong and how dare I try to copy his work. He said someone might see your model and think it's really my design and build it and then kill them selves in it and blame him. I wrote him back asking him why he was so hot since he had asked me to do to CAD model, and why he had gone so far out of his way to try to hurt my feelings. His response was basically that perhaps we shouldn't communicate any longer. So I stopped posting on his forum.

Long before I even had heard of Pat, I was thinking seriously about building my dream live aboard submarine on the big island of Hawaii. Pat got wind of this when I asked if I could visit with him when I moved over, from time to time, and he tried his hardest to make me believe the big island (were he lives) was a very bad place to do this. When in fact I had done a lot of home work, and even lived over there for a short bit to see if it would work. I still think it is a good idea, and I'm on a path towards that goal.

Pat had a very hard time letting anyone else in his group answer beginner questions, or any questions for that manor. He acted like almost every email was just to him. If he is so busy, then why would be have a forum, let alone one that he requires all emails to be read by himself first, before he will consider posting it? I know a few people that are generally so nice, and then when you lest expect it, they go off like a volcano, which makes them very stressful to be around. So I stay away from them if I can.

I'm glad for you Brady, that you have gained some great data from Pat. I as well, have learned some good things from him. But a person doing allot of good in the past and/or present, does not mean that person should be given a pass when they choose to be cruel.

Sincerely,

Brent Hartwig

From:  Brady Burkhart <braydeebee@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
Date:  Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT)

Wait a minute I know who you are!! You were in Pat's group but you called yourself "Szybowski." You were always arguing whack ideas with everybody and then you disappeared. That explains a lot.



FYI, I have all the messages from Pat's group including yours. I went back and read what he said. Dude you're talking about a man who has been sharing his knowledge about submarines for something like 30 years and he still is. He said in all that time most of the people he's ever seen ask for information never did anything with it and I agree. From what I've seen on every forum I've ever read,  most people see submarines like a passing fancy they amuse themselves with for a while and then they move on to something else. That's not being "negative" it's just reality.



I see
Pat as a doer not a talker. I couldn't fault him if he had to spend his time working rather than answering the same questions over and over again for people who mainly just want to gawk and gab but the fact is he hasn't stopped sharing information. I was talking to him last week and he showed me how to improve the ballast setup on my K350. In all the years I've been reading about K350s nobody ever mentioned the improvements I got from Pat. In my experience he is a walking encyclopedia of submarines and if he knows you are sincere he will help you.



But yeah "szybowski" I remember you made a fool of yourself in Pat's group and now you are over here imitating his clever phrases and talking about him. One problem with all groups like these is they attract those who pit one group against the other. That isn't cool and
doesn't help any of us who are real about building submarines. This rap shouldn't be happening there. I'm embarrassed at getting drawn into this and I apologize to the Psubs group. If you have anything else to say about this you should take it offline.







Brent Hartwig <brenthartwig@hotmail.com> wrote:



Hello Brady,



My Bad, I have checked Pats forum from time to time and had not seen any thing new since March of this year. Pat shut down the archive so no body could read the old postings. I had hoped to learn a thing or two from reading the archive. The last few posting on the forum, Pat was being very negative and telling everybody basically how they were wasting his time, and that
people that were asking him about how to build there own sub, would never likely do so. I've seen a huge surge of sub building in this group in the last year, and it's invigorating.

There are those out there that believe they are above and beyond the PSUB's group, and perhaps in some areas they are. How ever I'll bet even the most advanced minds in this group have learned a fair amount from being involved in this list. Besides they learned there knowledge and skills from other experts and a lot of hard work in the past. I have much to learn from this group, and in return I try to find data that the group can use. Being skilled and confident in what one does, are attractive traits, arrogance and excessive ego is not.

In regards to gas engines, I plan to use a Bombardier, Rotax engine in a separate 1ATM pressure hull.

Regards,

Brent Hartwig


"Iron rusts from disuse, stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; so does inaction sap the vigor's of the mind."
                                                             - Leonardo da Vinci






From:  Brady Burkhart <braydeebee@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Cliffs - R300
Date:  Sat, 21 Jul 2007 04:20:16 -0700 (PDT)



Yo Brent, Pat's forum isn't "dead." He's busy with his Nautilus and diving helmets but we're all still communicating.



I hear you about the noise and dangers of a gas engine in a small sub. You might expect that a guy as savvy as Pat Regan thought about that a long time ago.  All I'll say is his way of coping with them is just fully sick!!! 8^)) I'm not sure if he would mind me talking about that in detail. I could Email
him and see what he says.



At the end of the day I can't say noise and fire are impossible obstacles for everyone. Doc Rowe has gas engines in his Bionic Dolphins and Regan had a working closed circuit engine something like twenty years ago. As for me I am just a carpenter building a K350 so batteries and motors are as wild as I get.  I hear what you both are saying and
I wouldn't dare to try an engine either. But then I'm not Pat Regan or Doc Rowe.



Cheers!



Brady