The software is Rhinomarine, (rhino3d.com).
I wish I had Rhinomarine.....but I'm using Inventor and
Solidworks. Bummer....I would like to share.
No propane tank,....same as K boats, rolled ASTM 516 steel.
Oh....I thought the K boats used a
propane tank.....my mistake.
Length is 27' overall, pressure hull diameter 42", weight 11,500 lbs, give
or take...Accurate weight and balance table yet to be done, I will do this
after I hash out the final concept. The general specifications of PC-5C,
is the model. http://busby.psubs.org/html/page-176.html
Hmmm.....pretty large sub, but I'm
making these observations from an ignorance view.
".....With the current thruster angles....the
controls should be microcontroller based......"
Ah, yes...the thrusters! :) , and I just
learned something from you...more on that in a moment. Why the 45 degree
orientation you ask?.....several (not yet chiseled in granite),
reasons.
1- I need that orientation up forward, if I hope to have any kind of
forward view-port. As it is, the design requires significant camera
coverage.
I had noticed that.....there are not very many good
view port locations......hence the reason I was going to use a stepped sail
with clear dome hatches.
2- This orientation with proper controllers as you note, can and has been
successfully used in opposition and, in concert for spectacular
maneuverability, up / down, left / right. Also, this boat will be heavy so,
the thrusters in opposition to spin her about the vertical axis in her own
Length, with a snappy response......can only be a plus.
Granted.....I agree....it is the best option...but can
create a complex control system.
3- The last reason, is mimicking the NR-1 in as many ways possible.
Ah Plaigerism is the biggest form of
flattery.
"......This is provided the shaft drag (seals)
on each motor are relatively close......."
Now this is the little nugget I just got from you.
Minute differences in shaft seal drag and, how that might effect these little
guys controller wise, did not occur to me. It just so happens, that with my
newly planned home machine shop, that I recently decided the four maneuvering
thrusters would be using magnetic couplers. The two main motors aft, are
likely to remain shafts. All of these, thrusters and the main motors, will be
built before the sub is.
The difference will largly be
dependant on the HP rating of the motors. The smaller the motor...the more the
drag will affect them(matching).
I had decided that six rotating shafts, is asking
too much from the odds maker. But now that you mentioned that, I suspect the
magnetic couplers should be in a better position to be clones of one
another.
Agreed, I think that using magnetic
couplers are the best choice with respect to your design.
Thanks James, may I suggest that you post links for
appropriate suppliers regarding motor controller electronics on the PSUB web
site.
Well.....unfortunately.....there are
not available controllers for such a beast. Most controllers are built for
specific reasons....and subs use more things to achieve their purpose( more of
a concert, than a single instrument). I would think it would be better to list
motor drivers and such....then let people build the system they need....or
have someone else to do so. There are many factors to consider, like your
case, you are using 4 thrusters together to achieve a desired
movement......Just the actual levers for the control of the sub could be
confusing, and should be something you are thinking about. I recommend a
joystick that has three movable axis and some buttons. Forward/back,
left/right, and twist(this stick alone would control your angled thrusters)
Then you could add a button for just vertical thrust. then you would have a
secondary stick for just the forward motion thruster(s) and possibly rudder
control. This would be a pretty simple control arrangement for the sub. One
hand for pitch angle and spin.....the other for forward speed regular
turning.
Joe
From: "Lil Brother LLC"
<lil_brother_llc@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:
<personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Some thoughts on construction (I'm new so my research is not
that thorough)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:52:30 -0500
Joe,
Wow....those are great design
elements......something like I was thinking....but with a double stepped
sail.
Could I ask what software you used to do the
drawings........
Thanks for the websites....I know there is much
reading to be done. That is the reason I put in the header my research was
not thorough.
I noticed your design seems to revolve
around a propane tank. I think that is a great idea....
How large will the finished design
be?
I will help in any way that I can. The problem
with electronics......sometimes it takes more than one try to get what you
are looking for. The first try may work....but it hardly ever works exactly
like you want.(My experience)
I do have a concern about you design. (Please
remember I'm not versed with much submarine knowledge) I'm worried about
your thruster angles. To use the thrusters efficiently they would have to be
pretty well matched to do a coordinated hover turn. (jump from sea floor
spin 180 degree and set back down) I don't
think it is a danger, just could be very frustrating. Can I ask why you
didn't orient them vertically and horizontally? Or why they are not at more
of a vertical angle?
With the current thruster angles....the
controls should be microcontroller based. It would be able to balance the
thrust between the 4 much faster and more even than you could
manually.This is provided the shaft drag (seals) on each motor are
relatively close.
James Long
Owner/Designer
Lil Brother LLC (Instrument
Division)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 8:03
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Some
thoughts on construction (I'm new so my research is not that
thorough)
James,
".... I know totally encapsulating(
mostly.....the top hatch could never be totally surrounded) the crew
compartment within a ballast area...."
This is one of several viable
design considerations for soft tanks as specified by the text
"Concepts in Submarine Design", (highly recommended). It
also happens to be my choice for my own
design...http://www.frappr.com/?a=viewphoto&id=269116&pid=7063561
My suggestion for someone new, is to
read...read...read and then...read again. Did I mention read!
:)
Besides the online Busby manual on the PSUBS
web site, I highly recommend and have found a gold mine of information in
the NAVPERS fleet boat
manuals...http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm
As you are an electronics expert, perhaps I
may ask you a thing or two regarding systems integration when the time
comes...not quite yet as I am far from it at this point.
Joe
From: "Lil Brother LLC"
<lil_brother_llc@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST]
Some thoughts on construction (I'm new so my research is not that
thorough)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:05:24
-0500
>First I would like to thank everyone for a warm
welcome. It is nice
>to see a group of people that openly accepts
the new guy to the
>group.
>
>I have a question or
two that can be broken up into various
>departments:
>
>1. If the ballast tanks were to
totally surround the crew
>compartment, could the ballast area be
used structurally?
>
> I mean if the
air were purged, then the ballast area totally
>sealed (with
valves). Would this enhance the structure to help with
>the
pressure at depth?
>
> I figure since
this area would be totally filled with water
>(which doesn't
compress easily) it would add pressure resistance of
>the hull.
(I'm only guessing at this......so anyone could point out
>the
error in my
view)
>
> I know totally
encapsulating( mostly.....the top hatch could
>never be totally
surrounded) the crew compartment within a ballast
>area would be
a major pain, and would be hard to up keep over a long
> period of time, but it may be worth the
while if the design is
>possible.
>
>2. I've noticed
a very strange item on the X300( nice fiberglass
>single place,
dolphin shaped sub) aft end. I'm very curious what the
>item is.
I would also like to know what type of propulsion the sub
>uses.
>
>3. Are there any electronic valves out
there that are pressure rated
>for our uses. I would like some
companies to checkout to see if I
>can use them for ballast
control.
>
>4. What is the typical way of actuating bow and
stern control
>planes?
>
>Any other things you would
like to point out.....would be
>appreciated. I do not have any
materials to read regarding the
>design and construction of a
sub. My area is very rural and the
>library is much to be
desired.
>
>
>James
Long
>Owner/Designer
>Lil Brother LLC (Instrument
Division)
>
>
>
>
>
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