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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT

To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 17:03:00 -0400
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In-reply-to: <1Hs2p7-1d6lwO0@fwd27.sul.t-online.de>
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Carsten,
My library is packed away right now as I am in the midst of a move.  Several
of the operational reports allude to the difficulties experienced by the
divers operating from X-Craft.  X-craft depth excursions was one of them.
R/Jay


Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas

A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
MerlinSub@t-online.de
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 4:26 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT

Intressting, my book sources, anual reports etc. mention a lot of accidents
with offshore subs like fire, open hatch, crane mistake or catch a net, but
nothing with that case. Any real information about that ? 

regards  Carsten

"Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com> schrieb:
> Carsten,
> The divers experienced a lot of difficulties and my hat is off to them for
> what they accomplished through perseverance.  There were numerous cases of
> the subs broaching or plunging to the bottom during diver operations that
> dragged the divers with them.  Most of these are not noted in the general
> literature as the history is written to be heroic.
> R/Jay
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jay K. Jeffries
> Andros Is., Bahamas
> 
> A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not plunge.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of
> MerlinSub@t-online.de
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 11:59 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
> 
> I made a drawing to explain my words.. 
> 
> www.euronaut.org/content/upload/notes/AnchorandExit001.jpg
> 
> Note - I study the x-craft 
> - X-craft have many troubles - mostly electric. 
> But the diver exit in mid water works.  
> 
> :-) best regards Carsten 
> 
> 
> <MerlinSub@t-online.de> schrieb:
> > I forgot something. The trunk is below the hatch. I can close the hatch
> with a dry chamber any time. Dosen't matter how the waterlevel in the
trunk
> is. 
> > 
> > Anchor underwater is simple - just make the boats forward hard tank
heavy
> with the weight of the anchor. Euronauts anchor is a simple lead bell with
> 488 pound. 
> > Boat is than still neutral but anchor is than with 488 pounds in the
mud..
> 
> > Realy havy currents are may a problem. 
> > 
> > best regards Carsten 
> > 
> > 
> > <MerlinSub@t-online.de> schrieb:
> > > Gentlemens.. 
> > > 
> > > The diver exit on Euronaut is on the bottom of the diver chamber. 
> > > And has a exit trunk below it. 
> > > 
> > > If a diver has ready to dive a density of say 1 - there is no
> compensating system required except this trunk. 
> > > 
> > > Say volume of the diver is 1 something and remaining air volume of the
> chamber is 10 something. Air pressure is equal to outside pressure and
hatch
> is open. 
> > > 
> > > If the Diver leave the chamber the free air volume in the chamber
> increase to 11 - right ? - But that means that the air or gas pressure
goes
> down - and the water from outside climb a little into the trunk until the
> chamber volume without the diver is back to 10 - right ? 
> > > 
> > > The water which climbs into the short trunk has also a density of 1 -
> because the diver is neutral in the water - so boat is allways compensate.

> > > 
> > > Euronaut trunk is such high that three divers can leave the chamber
> before water climb into the chamber.. 
> > > 
> > > Keep it simple.. :-)
> > > 
> > > The chain is only there to compensate small differences in water
density
> and temperature and other small items to compensate - not to compensate a
> diver exit !
> > > 
> > > The boat is on anchor during diver exit about one divers high over the
> seabottom - The anchor is 400 pounds heavy.. and the hardtank on top of
the
> anchor system is flooded to this 400 pound to make the anchor 400 pound
> heavy. 
> > > 
> > > best regards Carsten
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "irox" <irox@ix.netcom.com> schrieb:
> > > > 
> > > > I don't think 170-200lbs object leaving the sub would be
> > > > negligible, the sub would float off with out it.  Carsten
> > > > suggested a neat way of dealing with that, having a heavy
> > > > chain resting on the sea floor attached to the sub, when I
> > > > diver gets out, the sub gets lighter and lifts a link or two
> > > > off the sea bed.  Search the archives for Carsten's original
> > > > email about this system.
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >  Ian.
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >From: Rob Bryan <Sundiver2000@earthlink.net>
> > > > >Sent: May 25, 2007 12:46 PM
> > > > >To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org,
underseacolonies@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Diver lockout VBT
> > > > >
> > > > >I've no experience with sub lockouts. I would think lockouts while 
> > > > >hovering would be very difficult and dangerous, so assuming sitting
> on 
> > > > >the bottom...
> > > > >
> > > > >Getting in and out of a vertical hatch with gear on is quite a
task, 
> > > > >whether scuba or line (with a bailout). In dive bell lockouts, the
> bell 
> > > > >is flooded a little to make it easier. Wouldn't you do that in a
sub 
> > > > >lock out? So if the lock was 48" in diameter and you only flooded
it
> up 
> > > > >a foot, that would be 800 lbs. The diver leaving would be
negligible,
> 
> > > > >no? (this doesn't even include any trunk volume). Is this actually
a 
> > > > >problem?
> > > > >Rob B
> > > > >
> > > > >ShellyDalg@aol.com wrote:
> > > > >> Hi. This is in response to the diver weight compensation
question.
> > > > >> Every dive trip in your sub requires careful measurement of what
> you 
> > > > >> bring on-board.
> > > > >> If the dive plan calls for a diver to exit the sub while at
depth,
> I 
> > > > >> would think that it would be better to add buoyancy to cover the 
> > > > >> divers extra weight while on-board, and then dump that buoyancy (
> air 
> > > > >> bubble ) when the diver exits the sub, there-by maintaining
neutral
> 
> > > > >> buoyancy while the diver is outside.
> > > > >> When the diver is back on-board, blow the required amount of air
> back 
> > > > >> into the trim tank ( a measured amount of water to compensate for

> > > > >> exactly how much the diver weighs ) and again maintaining neutral

> > > > >> buoyancy.
> > > > >> A sub with a diver lock-out function would need a bigger trim
tank 
> > > > >> than a sub without that capability.
> > > > >> Don't forget to calculate how much air the diver displaces with
his
> 
> > > > >> body, as this will figure into the required additional buoyancy
> too.
> > > > >> You don't need a separate pump system, nor would that be
desirable,
> to 
> > > > >> let a diver exit and re-enter the sub. The lock-out chamber is 
> > > > >> controlled by air pressure, and any small amount of water that 
> > > > >> remained within would be easily compensated for by the additional
> trim 
> > > > >> tank volume.
> > > > >> You WILL need some means of dumping the air from the lock-out
> chamber 
> > > > >> once the water is blown out and the hatch is closed so the diver
is
> 
> > > > >> once again  at one atmosphere. This needs to be monitored closely
> so a 
> > > > >> diver has time to dump the excess nitrogen absorbed by his body 
> > > > >> tissues and blood. A diver lock-out chamber is really much like a

> > > > >> de-compression chamber, but is located inside another chamber (
the
> 
> > > > >> sub's pressure hull ) so a compressor to drive out the additional
> air 
> > > > >> is required.
> > > > >> Frank D.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> See what's free at AOL.com 
> > > > >> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
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