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RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems



Joseph,
The passive sonar array on military subs are located in freeflooded areas of the ships such as within the bow area but low below the forward torpedoe tubes. The outer metal "skin" has little effect on the incoming sound waves as only the medium difference between air and water will reflect the sound waves to any degree...a majority of them will simply pass thru this thin steel and back into the water on the opposite side. (This should answer your hydrodynamic streamlining question.) Although the season has passed...You have seen those large ornate easter eggs that some people place in there yards at that time of year? If possable as they seem to be getting harder to aquire get your hands on a few of them. Cut the in two with a jig saw following the mold seam. Drill a small hole at the uppermost spot and make some small openings at the seam suface. Any protruding objects ( such as a small sonar array) could be covered by this freeflooding cover! I should point out at this time that I am far from rich. This is to say that what I don't have in resources I make up in inginuity. (I can turn many discarded items into useful stuff!) I am also a simpleton...The preamp was a kit from Radio shack...The amplifier was from a mini engeneers notebook from...Radio shack! In order to hear underwater sounds, one only needs to amplify the recieved sound by some 100X. A single preamp and a single amplifier does the work for all six hydrophones! This ensures that all six hydrophones are handled exactly the same. (simple!) The construction of this elabrate hexigon sonar array will be covered as it is constructed but you will come to see new uses for commonly used household items that you never thought of before! (Each hydrophone will be mounted within a plastic breakfast bowl with the air medium comprised of expanding foam insulation! The reason for the hexigon shape is that the array should mirror the cam/ switch set up so that the switch as activated will be linked to the hydrophone it is ment to represent...this all is best seen in order to better comprehend it. If you will not be able to attend this years convention and desire a copy of this material on passive sonar construction, a means of providing will be established. Give it a look...add to it...refine it...own it!


From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 02:17:34 +0000

David,

Sounds like quite an exercise in drawing up circuitry! This hexagon array, would it be streamlined a bit?

As fun as it would be to outfit and operate a boat like Kraka, it sure is easier to have "eyes" topside!

Still, I will be watching all this closely, I may be interested in drawing up a workable war-boat concept as a design exercise one day anyway, it was after all, my original interest in this. Peter builds his for real, I have to be satisfied with cyberspace for now.

Joe

From: "David Bartsch" <dbartsch2236@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:26:29 -0400

Joseph,
The initial sonar array being constructed is not very ambitious. It will contain six of these "Dolphin ear" style hydrophones configured in a hexigon configuration. Just as you would cup your ear with your hands so as to better hear a specific noise source (You are using the difference in medium between water(your hand) and air to accomplish this concentrating) We will isolate these hydrophones one from another using air. The hydrophone that is most closely aligned with the sound source will recieve it the loudest. The hydrophone selection is being accomplished by a handwheel driven cam that makes and breaks small microswitches. These hydrophones use the basic electronic rule that states that a complete path is required for current to flow. The ground connection is common to all of the hydrophones...only the other hydrophone connection is isolated for each hydrophone by individually assigned microswitches. A small overlap exist to ensure constant coverage as you transition from one hydrophone or area of coverage to another. Once the initial passive sonar is up and running, A modification of either a larger cam assembly that would accomodate a full 12 switches, or two same diameter cams mounted one above the other will provide for 30 degree in much the same way.
 As to the final degree of accuracy that can be obtained...who knows.
Even with but six hydrophones, sixty degrees is far more acceptable than 360 or none at all. Also...the use of sound dampening barriers or bulkheads could increase the bearing accuracy a great deal sorta like moving your ear near a cracked door to listen in on a conversation. by changing your boats heading and listening with a known reception window, you could almost certainly pinpoint a targets exact bearing. It is my intention to utilize a 12 hydrophone array to aquire a rough bearing to a detected contact, then use a large lower frequency hydrophone properly baffled to better pinpoint its location. I should point out that once the amplifier is adjusted to a confortable listening level, one need only turn the handwheel to the dirrection desired in order to listen for boat activity. (This is not going to take away from a dive as to complexity to operate!) This is an area still under investigation and of ongoing research...any findings or research on anyones part can only enhance or improve everones final passive sonar result. Also, by having purchased the real mcCoy as to a dolphin ear, some comparisons could be made between a commercially available hydrophones and any you can produce yourself and will in the long run ensure that your final product will be the best that you can obtain.(So don't feel too bad)


From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:57:43 +0000



David,

Free is always the "right price"! I cannot be there but, look forward to seeing the results.

Let me ask you this,... what can a homebuilder expect in terms of narrowing the bearings to prop sounds to say... within 5 deg? Is that a reasonable expectation?

Joe






From:  "David Bartsch" <dbartsch2236@hotmail.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:  RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems
Date:  Thu, 10 May 2007 23:32:25 -0400
>Joseph Perkel,
>   Nice hydrophones...my plans are free and will be available at the
>upcomming convention!
>
>
>>From: "Joseph Perkel" <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>>Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hydrophone systems
>>Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:44:20 +0000
>>
>>
>>Peter and others,
>> >>When I was considering a war-boat replica, I had gone as far a

>>acquiring plans for a homemade directional hydrophone.
>>http://www.digitalmarketingusa.com/hydrophone.html
>> >>There are a number of commercial, albeit expensive units that are
>>off the shelf such as
>>http://www.sonotronics.com/html/products/receivers/mantrak.html
>> >>The idea being that one could mount such a device atop a short
>>shaft through a simple rotating thru hull. One could have a fixed
>>compass rose on the inside with the bow of course aligned
>>@ 360 deg, in order for the operator to determine and call out
>>bearings.
>> >>When I was diving, I was fairly certain within.... I would guess a
>>90 deg swath of the direction of props to try to keep myself from
>>being blended. This is
with human ears so I am quite sure these
>>units will get that down to the degree.
>> >>If you really want to get fancy, there are software programs
>>available that will determine range based upon density and sound
>>wave propagation. This could be run on a Panasonic "Toughbook".
>> >>Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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