Jay,
I've seen greed destroy many a good thing, so I truly hope that does not turn out to be the case here. Allot of people that would donate there time and/or money, get really turned off by that sort of attitude. I know he's closely related to Simon Lake but in my opinion that sort of history belongs to the world to explore and learn from. I was thinking after I sent the last email that allot or all the scanned data and/or pictures of the artifacts could be put on CD's and sold on the PSUB's site, the Simon Lake sight, Amazon.com or the like to help support a museum and get the data into many different areas for safe keeping.
In regards to the models we could add more detail then we would know what to do with if we did allot of period type research and could debate the likely hood of each detail. Of course it wouldn't be exactly correct but it would be a interesting learning experience. There are those out there that are great at finding odd things in archives all over the world that we had no clue was saved. So it would be interesting if one of us could write to the History Detectives on PBS and get them to dig up some more data and maybe pictures of Simons early subs. Or the PSUBers could pool together to send someone good at that sort of thing to look for data for us. There are a good number of super smart college students that need a research project. What about students studying 19th century engineering?
Regards,
Brent
From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Fabrication at home
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 16:22:41 -0400
Brent,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I to agree that important or historical documents should be duplicated and stored at an alternate, safe site. Unfortunately, Jeff doesn?t have a curatorial background, is severely underfunded, and now is experiencing ill health with age. He took on the burden of keeping the Lake materials after no one in the immediate family took interest. The archives are kept in the first floor of his house which is a short distance across the road to the Inland Waterway just south of Melbourne, FL (hurricane alley lately) and have suffered accordingly. This was my fear when first visiting the site in the early 90s. The materials are in disarray and not accessioned. It is my impression that he feels that there is great financial value in the materials and is rather guarded when discussing the matter of others assistance. I will re-evaluate this opinion after my visit in late April and let you know.
Simon Lake grew up in South Jersey just outside of Atlantic City in a town called Pleasantville. It is my belief that a formal museum could be located there and would be eligible for funding from the casinos as well as the State, and Federal governments due to the area being financially repressed. There is a local state college that could provide interns as part of their history program. I have considered forming a non-profit corporation to promote this idea. Hopefully Jeff can be convinced to support the plan as there is no one in his surrounding family interested in maintaining the Lake historical records.
Jeff and his sister, Melissa have previously attempted to develop interest in a Lake documentary but have not been able to come up with a great enough ?hook? to justify funding.
I have toyed with building 3-D models of the Explorer, Argonaut and the Argonaut II in Rhino which then could easily be transformed into solid models, whether as ½ ship models or of 3-D resin. There are not many photographs of the subs and those that are available are of poor quality. Guessing that the average man was probably 5 ½ feet in stature at the turn of the century, the images could be roughly scaled to develop plans from?these would just be lacking in detail.
R/Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not float.
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:39 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Fabrication at home
Good Morning Jay,
The expedition sounds very interesting and perhaps a little fun to. I hope you guys get to go and find some thing substantial to boot. With regards to historical records and other materials I usually like the idea of scanning all the documents and taking tons of pictures of every thing else and putting the items in more them one place on the planet. So that if one place is routed with fire, theft, water, etc. there is still allot left to see. Perhaps allot or all of the above has already been done, just my thoughts. I know it takes allot of work, care and money, and I don't like to suggest others should do a bunch of work without pitching in myself. So perhaps I should see if Jeff Lake would be interested in any help from me or others in the group in this regard. Do you think that would be ok with Jeff?
Of late we have talked about a scholarship from PSUB's, and perhaps that scholarship or one like it could be used to work on the Simon Lake data and materials. I was really hoping there would be more detailed pictures and data on the Argonauts, but that is what it is. I believe that some quite nice model's could still be made from the little data at hand. They wouldn't be exact of course, but I think interesting none the less. I've been learning how to overlap materials like the materials used on the Aurgonauts in CAD and cutting holes for rivits and placing rivits on compound curved surfaces. So it's getting interesting.
One would think that the History Channel, Discovery Channel, or the like would be all over this with there great interest in war history and interesting history in general.
Regards,
Brent
"Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem." - John Galsworthy
From: "Jay K. Jeffries" <bottomgun@mindspring.com>
To: "'Brent Hartwig'" <brenthartwig@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Fabrication at home
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 01:27:02 -0400Brent,
The Simon Lake Museum is in poor shape due to inadequate facilities and no funding. Since I last visited some time ago, two hurricanes caused water damage to many of the records held. Jeff Lake (Simon?s grandson) is living off of what he can make selling off documents with Simon?s signature and other items out of the collection. Unfortunately, there are no drawings available in the collection (or in the National Archives) of Lake?s personal submarines to design accurate models from. Even most of the photographs are of poor quality. Would really like models of these subs.
I am trying to arrange a meeting with Jeff in late April to conduct research of the final resting place of Simon?s submersible Defender that was supposedly scuttled in the Long Island Sound. I am slated to be a member of the expedition that searches for the sub this summer.
Take care,
Jay
Respectfully,
Jay K. Jeffries
Andros Is., Bahamas
A skimmer afloat is but a submarine, so poorly built it will not float.
From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Brent Hartwig
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2007 8:52 PM
To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Fabrication at home
I was very happy with the results of my prototypes made from using the SLS (Selective Laser Sintering) DuraForm polyamide (PA) for it's great detail and for testing my living hinge. I could sand it really smooth and paint it as well. The SLA prototypes didn't look near as good to me. The prices have come down quite a bit now that there is allot more competition out there. A guy could take his CAD models of PSUBS and scale them down to make models out of them using the SLS parts to make molds off of. I was thinking it would be fun to make a couple of model kits of the Simon Lake submarines, like the Argonauts to help support a Simon Lake Museum.
From: "Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] 3D Fabrication at home
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 21:56:03 -0800
>For all you CAD/CAM types out there . . .
>
>http://www.physorg.com/news92328869.html
>
>Enjoy
>
>Rick Lucertini
>Vancouver, Canada
>
>
>
>
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************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal CAN-SPAM Act of 2003. Your email address appears in our database because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages from our organization. If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the link below or send a blank email message to: removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an automated process and should be complete within five minutes of our server receiving your request. PSUBS.ORG PO Box 53 Weare, NH 03281 603-529-1100 ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************ ************************************************************************