[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] CO2 scrubber alternatives?



Why you want a alternative to scrubbers ? 
Its cheap, small and simple. 
A box with 3 Kg (6 pound) works for 6-8 hours. 

best regards Carsten

Robert Ossian schrieb:
> 
> I am in the process of designing my first dry
> submersible, but in an attempt to extend my O2 (and my
> dive time) I am looking for an alternative to using
> CO2 scrubbers.
> 
> I have been thinking of using some sort of a half face
> regulator design, simlar to the type worn by fighter
> pilots, but am still a little concerned about CO2
> levels building up in the cockpit.  How can I make
> sure that the C02 is actually expelled safely?
> 
>   Any Ideas?
> 
> --- "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
> 
> > Brian,
> >
> > The viewports I was describing are the ones that are
> > a flat disk type.  The 45 degree chamfer I was
> > referring to, is not for a conical viewport.  The
> > lenses I was describing have straight sides, but on
> > the external side of the lens, the otherwise 90
> > degree edge is chamfered at 45 degrees, to accept an
> > O-ring in what becomes a cavity because of the big
> > chamfer.  All of my flat viewports are made like
> > this.
> >
> > There is one conical viewport in the hatch cover on
> > "Persistence".  It's viewport housing does not have
> > a flat seat for the lens to sit against but instead
> > it is cone shaped.  Of course the small hole end of
> > the cone is inboard and the big end is outboard.
> > This is the only viewport in my sub that isn't
> > urethaned in place also.  The cone hole in the
> > housing is a complete taper from one side the other.
> >  The lens is machined with the same matching taper,
> > but on the big diameter of the lens, the outboard
> > side, some of the taper part is machined away so the
> > lens has straight sides for about a quarter of an
> > inch.  It is this part of the lens, where the cone
> > does not come to a sharp edge, that creates the
> > cavity for the O-ring seal.
> >
> > Two totally different types of lenses and housings
> > but both sealed with O-rings in a 45 - 45 - 90
> > degree shaped cavity.  Only, as I said in the last
> > posting, I also sealed the flat lenses with
> > urethane.
> >
> > I do like the idea of the conical lens in the hatch
> > cover not being urethaned in because my hatch cover
> > latches aren't accessible from outside the sub.  If
> > anyone has to drag me out of it, the best way to
> > access the inside is through this easily removed
> > conical viewport.  My crew knows this.
> >
> > Hope this explains it better.  If not you may be
> > able to see some of my description in pics of
> > "Persistence" during construction.  I know PVHO
> > standards show both types of lenses and more.
> > (for those not Familiar with PVHO, it is Pressure
> > Vestal for Human  Occupation standards)
> >
> > Dan H.
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Brian Cox
> >   To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >   Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 10:54 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >   Dan,
> >              That is some really good insight,
> > something you wouldn't necessarily find in a book.
> > Thanks,  I only hope I can return the favor some day
> > to somebody in the future.
> >
> >   What about the viewports that do not have that 45
> > degree taper, just squared off.   Don't you have
> > some viewports like that?   I've been thinking of
> > maybe using that type because of the ease of
> > machining them and just having a small tapered one
> > in the hatch.
> >
> >   On the flat viewports does your o ring also go in
> > that little chamfer space? And all the same would
> > apply as far as the size of the lens and the
> > placement of the urethane sealant.
> >
> >   Thanks
> >
> >   Brian
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     From: Dan H.
> >     To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >     Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 05:57
> >     Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >     Brian,
> >
> >     The Acrylic people can tell you what the thermal
> > expansion of acrylic is.  I talked to them when I
> > was doing mine but I forget the details right now.
> > It's pretty great, as most plastics are.  On a small
> > diameter viewport, it's not a big deal because there
> > aren't that many inches of acrylic to expand and
> > contract, but a large diameter lens changes
> > dimension quite a bit.
> >
> >     My first design followed the recommendation in
> > PVHO for a flat lens with a 45 degree chamfer on
> > it's outer edge to contain an O-ring seal.  The
> > O-ring hits in three places.  One is on the 45
> > degree chamfer on the lens, the other is on the
> > viewport housing and lastly on the cover ring that
> > holds the O-ring and lens in place.
> >
> >     The PVHO standards also call for a flat urethane
> > cushion to be placed between the lens and the
> > housing.  I guess that's so any out of flatness in
> > either the lens or housing can be cushioned.
> >
> >     The problem was that the hot, 130 degree,
> > diameter and the cold, 30 degree, diameter varied so
> > much that a viewport housing made to fit the lens
> > when at it's largest, will be big enough to leave a
> > big clearance gap when the lens is cold.  The gap
> > between the lens and housing when cold was more then
> > the O-ring manufacture recommended.  I talked to the
> > O-ring engineers and they said that a three point
> > contact application as this application is in PVHO
> > actually forces the O-ring to extrude at a lower
> > pressure.  They said, this coupled with a gap that
> > could grow quite large is not a good design.   If
> > the O-ring did extrude in this design, it may also
> > take the urethane disk with it and blow the whole
> > thing into the sub.
> >
> >     So what did I do?  I did what worked for Captain
> > Kittredge for years.  I machined my lens smaller to
> > create an 1/8 inch gap all around it circumference
> > and I made the housing so it was about fifty
> > thousants deeper then the lens was thick.  When I
> > installed the lens, I imbedded it in urethane
> > sealant.  This created a flat bed of urethane for
> > the lens to rest against and a 1/8 inch ring of
> > Urethane to seal the gap around the circumference of
> > the lens.  For good measure, I put the O-ring in the
> > 45 degree chamfer I had around the edge of the lens
> > also.  The O-ring is sort of redundant, but if the
> > urethane ever separates, the O-ring will still keep
> > the seal and as long as the urethane fills the gap,
> > the O-ring can't be extruded.
> >
> >     I know I don't have the expansion room I was
> > first trying to have.  But, I don't have the lend
> > pressing against bare metal and I have a good seal.
> >  You can't knock success and Captain Kittredge had
> > success with this method for thirty years.
> >
> >     Dan H.
> >       ----- Original Message -----
> >       From: Brian Cox
> >       To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >       Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:02 AM
> >       Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >       Maybe make the lens and then measure it hot
> > and cold, then machine the viewport housing to the
> > hot dimension and get the right size o ring for
> > whatever the gap there is.
> >
> >       Bri
> >         ----- Original Message -----
> >         From: Dan H.
> >         To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >         Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 20:03
> >         Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >         Yep!  Plexiglas is a trade name for Acrylic.
> >
> >
> >         Some one wrote that you should get a copy of
> > PVHO.  It's a good idea if you can get a look at it.
> >  In there, you'll find the answers to most of your
> > questions.
> >
> >         The one thing that PVHO didn't answer for me
> > was how to deal with thermal expansion of the
> > acrylic lens.  It's a great set of standards to
> > design with if your viewport is in a pressure
> > chamber in a building, but a sub viewport can be
> > exposed to 130 degrees F in or better in the hot sun
> > and 30 degrees F in cold water.  Mine has already
> > seen that extreme.  If I followed the PVHO exactly,
> > my external O-ring seal would now be stuffed in the
> > annulus between the lens and the viewport housing
> > after my deep water test in cold water.
> >
> >         Dan H.
> >           ----- Original Message -----
> >           From: Brian Cox
> >           To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >           Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 9:32 AM
> >           Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >           "Cast" Acrylic is what to use - correct ?
> >
> >           Brian
> >             ----- Original Message -----
> >             From: Dan H.
> >             To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >             Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 04:51
> >             Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >             Joe,
> >
> >             Look up Acrylic in a search, find a
> > manufacture you like and either E-mail or call them
> > with an inquiry about where the nearest stocking
> > distributor is in your location.  That works for
> > most anything your looking for.  Get a few
> > distributors names and you can bounce pricing
> > between more then one if you like.
> >
> >             Isn't the internet a great thing? ;-)
> >             Dan H.
> >               ----- Original Message -----
> >               From: JOE
> >               To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> >               Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 12:54
> > AM
> >               Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] viewports
> >
> >
> >               Looking for a plastic supplier for
> > viewports, in the USA
> >
> >               Thanks
> >               Happy holidays
> >
> >               Joe
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
> CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
> because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
> from our organization.
> 
> If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
> link below or send a blank email message to:
>         removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> 
> Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
> automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
> our server receiving your request.
> 
> PSUBS.ORG
> PO Box 311
> Weare, NH  03281
> 603-529-1100
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************
> ************************************************************************



************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
CAN-SPAM Act of 2003.  Your email address appears in our database
because either you, or someone you know, requested you receive messages
from our organization.

If you want to be removed from this mailing list simply click on the
link below or send a blank email message to:
	removeme-personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Removal of your email address from this mailing list occurs by an
automated process and should be complete within five minutes of
our server receiving your request.

PSUBS.ORG
PO Box 311
Weare, NH  03281
603-529-1100
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
************************************************************************