[PSUBS-MAILIST] Large volume realities

Brian,

A novel approach and why I joined this group, ideas and technical advice. As you and others have pointed out, there exists the "unpleasant reality" of trying to submerge a large volume of air.

I am proposing to now "remove" that large volume from the equation by flooding the space. As Dan pointed out, determine a weight and displacement ahead of time.

If the ship weighs 10k but has a volume that would displace 28k, why not "reduce" that displacement down to 10k by flooding the remaining space? Why can't you do that? The crews heads would be in the conning tower which would effectively now be a diving bell.

This turns it into a semi-dry ambient, but if that's what needs to be done..oh well. I've got nice warm water here.

Joe

From: "Brian Cox" <ojaivalleybeefarm@dslextreme.com>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "Frankenboot"
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:52:18 -0800

What if you had a large surface vessel that had a large volume of air, say just a simple cylinder, like 6' in dia by 20' long. That would give you quite a bit of floatation. But if you tried to go submerged with that you would be having to move a very large mass underwater. But what if you opened the ends of the cylinder wide open and ran propultion through that space, then that space would not really be a displacment factor. The only dispacement would be just the rim of the cylinder. Turning might create problems but you might be able to get around that somehow.

This might be a way to cheat your displacement of a large surface vessel with out paying the price for the large mass under water. The devil would be in the details.

My 2 cents

Brian

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Perkel

To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org

Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 15:55

Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "Frankenboot"

Paul,

Yes, I found Dougs site some time ago, there's some pretty inspirational stuff in there. It is all part of why I believe this to be possible.

And yes, the WWII boats have a shape that is much more practical for me than my original idea and I don't need a double hull per see for the ambient. Imagine a forward bow tank that could double as a vee berth! Large volume, dual use, well baffled, waterproof roll up mats stowed for divening. Fleet boat or U-boat, builders choice.

Is it doable? I don't know yet. I recently discovered the 444 cf hp cylinder, kinda puts a little different spin on things. Long narrow shape for a hull?, small compensated airspace for machinery?, four of those 444's?, money, time, effort...what precisely is possible?

Even though I had found it, thanks so much for the link Paul.

Joe

From:  Paul Kreemer <paulkreemer@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject:  Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] "Frankenboot"
Date:  Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:44:00 -0800

Boy I think I'd look at Doug Jackson's http://www.submarineboat.com
website first for comparisons. He's building a dry ambient where
most of the SportSub's are wet ambient. Doug has a large surface
cockpit/rear deck area which obviously floods when underwater but which
provides a nice seating and cargo area while surfaced.

Doug's design looks different from most any other sub, and different
from Joe's WWII look, but I think it has some great practical ideas and
more similarities to what Joe is describing.

Paul

On 11/14/05, Joseph Perkel <joeperkel@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rick,

This sub uses the main cabin as ballast tank http://www.ivccorp.com/

Here is proper use of the other suggestion http://pbskids.org/sesame/ernie/index.html

Thanks :)

Joe

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