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It has a pressurized cockpit though, so that
doesn't make sense.
I did hear from Carl Stanley that it was very
underpowred.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005
12:42
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Some
issues
I
heard they did not want to use it because it is to hard to control decent and
accent speeds and that there was to much danger in decompression sickness from
nitrogen buildup on fast accents. Not sure if it was true. I just heard it as
rumor.
Chip
Paul,
What is
this about deepflight being "decommisioned" ? Do you mean
that they are just not running the sub anymore or what?
My sub is loosely based on deepflight's
design.
Brian
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005
10:01
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: Some
issues
Joe,
So mainly there's that one unpleasant reality
of submerging a volume of air: it has a lot of buoyancy! 63 lbs/cf
of seawater adds up pretty quickly into a too-heavy-to-trailer
submarine. And the fact that you're considering an ambient sub
doesn't really help your displacement, right? The construction is
easier in that you don't need a 1 inch thick pressure hull but
unfortunately the boat needs to weigh just as much as if you did.
I've liked the DeepFlight two person sub (model 502) which has a
separate pressure compartment for each occupant. It really helps to
reduce the cabin air volume but it also locks you into a small space which
is very different from your original dream. And does anyone know why
it's been decommisioned now? I think they built that one for their
pilot training program. Maybe they didn't get many people buying the
training? http://deepflight.com/subs/dfa.htm
What
we need is a clever trick like that used in water ballasted sailboats -
just fill the tanks before sailing to increase your displacement.
But of course that doesn't help a sub, unless you look at flooding most of
your crew compartment while diving. Maybe you need a sand
ballast keel system. :-) Run along in shallow water scooping
up sand until you've got the two tons or so that you
need...
take care-
Paul
On 11/7/05, Joseph
Perkel <joeperkel@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Rick,
Thank you for the info and support. With further research my initial
exuberance has now been tempered a bit by reality. Something I am
quite sure all of the newbie's must experience at the beginning.
My main issue at the moment is material density and it's effects on
buoyancy and ballast requirements, in this case of course, ply
composites for this ambient design. Lead is my friend in this case but
still there are some hurdles to overcome.
Pat Regans boat has a "proper" pressure hull underneath but it is
tiny. I want a compromise between size and the necessity of having to be
launched by crane, so my belief is that an ambient design could be light
enough to be trailer able and still give some reasonable interior volume
but therein lies the technical hurdles.
I am looking at aluminum again as I did last year for a surface yacht
(see the attachment for the quote)...outrageous! This could quite
possibly be riveted as in the old 'R" boats but that of course presents
it's own problems. One would use lighter gauge alloy than what you see
in the quote so welding would not really be an option.
I must admit though all these technical hurdles are quite fun to try
to figure out.
Joe
From:
"Rick and Marcia" <empiricus@telus.net
>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <
personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Some issues
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 02:47:37
-0800
Hi, Joe - 560 cu.ft. is about 35,800 lb. of
buoyancy. That's quite a bit. :-)
Once neutral buoyancy was achieved, dynamic control
(i.e.: planes) maintained depth. The HP air was more than
enough to get the boats back up in case of planes failure or even
partial flooding.
As far as limiting your posts to a time when
"flatter curves" would be appropriate, keep in mind that, as far
as I know, our archives are listed by date and by thread, not by key
word search. As long as we, the "pro's", neglect to label our
subject headings appropriately, please feel free to ask all the
ridiculous questions you want.
As far as archival searches are concerned, I'm sure
Ray would love to spend thousands of hours (!?) labeling each and
every post from the past six or seven years according to design ethic,
systems analysis, materials science, commercial suppliers, fluid
dynamics, parts availability, hydrodynamics, conceptual rationale,
human engineering, etc.
I hope everyone realises that, besides being
impossible, the only thing almost as hard as codifiying the archives
is finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.
Again, as above, please feel free to ask all the
ridiculous questions you want.
Rick
Vancouver
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Friday, November 04, 2005 8:02 AM
Subject:
[PSUBS-MAILIST] Some issues
Group
I am discovering material density
issues along with the air supply, buoyancy and control issues
inherent to a dry ambient design. In that regard the following
excerpt is from the NAVPERS manual for air systems aboard WWII fleet
boats, specifically the 3000 lb system.
2A3. Air banks.
Each of the five air banks consists of seven flasks, with the
exception of the No. 1 air bank, which has eight. Each flask is
provided with a drain valve. The total capacity of the air banks is
560 cubic feet. The No 1 air bank is located inside the pressure
hull, with four flasks in each battery compartment. The other four
air banks are located in the main ballast
tanks
The 560 total cubic feet
caught my eye and I wondered if this could possibly be correct?
Since this is equivalent of seven 80 SCUBA tanks on such
a large vessel to blow tons of seawater. I understand the concept of
the low-pressure blowers on the surface and would employ that
feature. But I am still trying to make sense of buoyancy tankage and
air supply issues for a dry ambient design.
Incidentally, I have been dealing with
post Hurricane issues (somewhat "irritating") but was distressed to
see the recent posts, as the animosity was palpable. If as a "new
guy" some of my previous posts were somewhat "irritating" to some, I
did so in ignorance of the culture within this community however, I
cannot offer any apologies for this reason. Although I am a neophyte
in this field, I am an expert in others where the basics were once
complex issues to me.
That having been said, I will respect
the house "rules" and limit my posts to those times when the
learning curve has flattened a bit as above.
Thank You
Joe ************************************************************************
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