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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Whatever happened to "finders keepers?"



dave
    my grand father died at sea durring ww2 and i find the recovery of artifacts by private individuals disgusting.
These are graves, unless you are willing to let me dig up your grandmother so i can sell her gold on ebay. leave my grandfather alone.  Most wrecks have little or nothing for the scientist,  and there is very little  to be known from where they lie. There is no difference from the selling of an artifact from these wrecks or the selling of a a piece of the wreck of princes di
 
rick miller
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Banks
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Whatever happened to "finders keepers?"

A lot of what your saying Bill is right....But Janet Reno was a big part of the problem  Dave

Akins <lakins1@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Compare the difference between the two below links written by different reporters and see how scuba divers who
 
find wrecks are demonized and called "theives" and "plunderers".
 
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/nation/12356810.htm  In this link the divers are understanding heroes placing flags on the wrecked sub.
 
http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050710.html  In this link the divers are "amateurs", "theives" and "plunderers". Yeah, amatuers who
 
found it when the U.S. Navy didn't try or give a care enough to search for over 60 years!
 
 
The only theives and plunderers
 
are the state and federal governments. The state of Florida illegally held Mel Fisher's Atochia treasure until a federal court
 
made them give it back. Of course then the federal government took a piece of it too since although it was
 
not in state waters and the state was due NO cut of it, it WAS in federal waters. So the feds  got their chunk for doing NOTHING!
 
Diver's risk their lives and fortunes in recovering sunken treasures and artifacts and instead of it being "finders, keepers"
 
which it should be, the state and federal governments think we should get nothing for our efforts. In fact recently the law
 
has been changed to disallow us to keep ANYTHING found on Florida state submerged lands without a permit. Of course
 
to get that permit you have to give the state a piece of your treasure for them doing NOTHING. Our Navy also takes from
 
divers. If you bring up ANYTHING from a U.S. Navy wreck, plane or ship, they will charge you with theft of gevernment property
 
and confiscate it, fine you, and even give you jail time. Yet the Navy is allowed by our courts to have it both ways. What I mean by
 
that is....the Navy says it NEVER relenquishes ownership of its wrecks and therefore they still own them and you cannot recover them.
 
The supreme court has upheld this. Yet in court cases that fishermen have brought against the Navy for damage to their fishing boats
 
from exposed parts of Navy ships sticking out of the water, the Navy has successfully argued that the Navy ABANDONED those ships
 
and the courts have sided with the Navy on that as well! So if the Navy wants something you find and bring up, they say they NEVER
 
abandon any of their wrecks, but if you sue them for damage to your boat from one of their wrecks, they say the ABANDONED it!
 
It is illogical that our courts let them get away with this, but they do. Next is the state archaeologists who do not want anyone but
 
themselves finding and recovering artifacts. They argue that only THEY are qualified and the rest of us are "amateurs", "theives" and
 
"plunders" unless we have an archaeological diploma hanging on the wall and work as a state archaeologist. The truth is they are jealous
 
of the finds found by the private sector and want to stop anyone from operating but them so they can write books, become famous, get
 
credit for ALL the finds, and most importantly....get further grants. All the above disgusts me and reading that Largato article just brought it home
 
again just how discriminated against divers are. Wasn't the Hunley a war grave? They didn't hesitate to bring that up. The jap minisub
 
recently found in Hawaii is the same thing, yet there is a big political flap about it being a war grave and shouldn't be brought up. It looks to me
 
like a submarine is a war grave when the federal government or state wants it to be and it somehow becomes an archaeological dig when they
 
want it to be! So in effect, there is no law, just whatever the federal or state government or the Navy says and makes up as they go along.
 
Sorry for the ranting, the injustice of it all just really bothers me. If it was up to me, every sub ever lost would be brought up and put in a museum
 
so they could be preserved to be seen by future generations instead of being allowed to rot into iron oxide dust which is what will happen to them if unrecovered.
 
We could bury any crew remains in the ground with full military honors (like we did the Hunley crew) and then call THAT a war grave.
 
Bill. 
 
 


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