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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hard / soft ballast tanks.



Hi Myles.
 
You wrote...." Is electric control of valves common, safe, reliable ?"
 
Honestly Myles, I personally do not know. I have never installed nor used an electric valve. However I have read of other people using them so
 
I assume they work. I don't see why they wouldn't work.
 
Bill.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Hall
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hard / soft ballast tanks.

Bill,
 
   You certainly are qualified.
 
   Alas, my "problem" addressed.   What I was thinking was how to make access and control of the water intake valve for the tank at the tower.  Since all my controls are going to be in the tower, I was trying to think how I could route the piping and valves up there.  But yes of course, I don't need to do that.  I simply need the control for the valve in the tower, which can be done electrically, with a mechanical back up that doesn't need to be in such a conveneint place as the tower, but simply accessible.  Is electric control of valves common, safe, reliable ?
 
Myles.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Akins
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hard / soft ballast tanks.

Hi Myles.
 
You wouldn't necessarily have to install the piping at the BOTTOM of the ballast tank. You could install it at the top of the tank too.
 
Whether you put air into the ballast tank from its bottom or its top wouldn't make any difference, the air would seek the top of the tank
 
and push the water out the bottom since as the air collects in the top the water volume has to lower presumably out the bottom. I
 
would install the piping so there were no pipes or valves sticking out on the bottom of the ballast tank that might be hit by the ocean
 
bottom if you have no guards of any kind below the ballast tank. You could use an electrically operated valve and route the wiring
 
to the tower to work the valves. But in case the circuit failed, you would  want a redundant mechanical backup located in the sub hull if not in the tower
 
and just use the primary electrical wired valve most of the time in the tower unless you had a malfunction.
 
 The water will only seek its own level (level of ocean for instance) and that means unless it is under pressure it should not travel up the
 
ballast tank pipe to the tower on it own. It would only travel up from the ballast tank until it hit the same level the ocean water was at for
 
example and wouldn't make it to the tower. Simply because your ballast tank is under water and that puts a little pressure on the ballast
 
tank pipe for the water to travel upward, as soon as that water reaches the level of the water your sub is in, it will stop rising because it has
 
reached the surrounding water's level. It's like a siphon hose. As long as you keep the hose down the water will flow out, as soon as you raise
 
the hose to the level of the water you are siphoning it will stop flowing. You can gain control of the valve to let the water in either by a emergency manual
 
valve routed to the hull interior or by your primary electrically wired valve located in the tower. Hopefully you will never have to use the manual valve
 
but it would be there if you needed it, located in the hull via a hull penetration close to the ballast tank.
 
I'm not totally sure I am understanding  what you were asking according to the way I was reading it, but I discerned what I thought you were asking as
 
best I could. I hope this may have helped you.
 
But check out what I say with others.  I sometimes miss things and I don't have any proper credentials. Lol.
 
Bill Akins. (As suggested, the below has been included by my name. At least this once. Lol.
 
 
Psubs superior officer credibility and credentials review for Akins, wetsub mechanic, wannabe pilot.
 
Psubs CREDENTIALS FOR CREDIBILITY.... Currently rebuilding/modifying a former working movie wetsub. Certified Diver, former aircraft pilot,
                                                                  ex marine, inventor, patent holder in the firearms field U.S. patent # 6,101,918
 
Psubs credentials and credibility rating (Should we listen to this guy at all?)  Rated perhaps a 5 out of possible 10.
                              
                                                 
Psubs current ranking.....Enlisted man. Diver/Mechanic. Training towards wetsub pilot officer rating.
 
Wetsub mechanic  Akins, age 52, shows good morale and a willingness to learn. Sometimes makes mistakes, but does
have a good general knowledge of subs from his own self taught readings and his father's (Harold L. Akins)
teachings who was a distinguished WW2 submariner on the Rasher SS269 during WW2 
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08269.htm   Also see...( Sasgen, Peter T. RED SCORPION USNI 1995
The War Patrols of  USS Rasher. Rasher SS-269 was one of the top submarines of World War II.
Among the 190 subs in the Pacific that saw combat, she ranked second in tonnage (99,901) and ninth in the
number of ships sunk (18). Maps, app., 366 pages. 1st F/F $25 ) 
Evident that Akins comes from a good submarine family and his superior officers are hopeful he will someday build
something more significant than his current Ford Pinto (so to speak, as opposed to a REAL sub) of a wetsub project. He is
possessed of an inventive mind  and is a candidate for promotion from mechanic to sub cadet pilot with credentials as soon as he
shows us pictures or video of his wetsub operating in water successfully. Akins was a U.S. Marine trained in
water survival and is currently a practicing diver and has some knowledge and credibility in underwater
operations.  He has sometimes been criticized by a few of his crewmen for his interest in civil war submarines
and has been called "a candlewaster" (one who reads but learns nothing), and also called a  "Hunley bunnley" but gets along
very well with most of his other shipmates. He is always willing to help to a fault. I recommend perhaps one day he will be eligible for
promotion to the elite psubs officer ranks with a commisson and credentials and credibility rating.  However, until such time as Akins
shows us his completed and successful wetsub (barely a submarine according to some officers) or any other sub project he may complete, 
I recommend his comments and suggestions should be suspect and checked out and confirmed with superior officers before being acted upon. 
Overall his performance is satisfactory but could use some improvement. No promotion recommended at this time.
 
SMILE. No Offense. Just makin a point and fun'n.

 
 
 
                                                                                                           
                           
----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Hard / soft ballast tanks.

Bill,
 
   I'm glad my brain is on the right page here.  I guess my next question would be, can those valves and piping function the same as the compressed air system ?  What I mean is, do I install my piping at the bottom of the ballast tank, route the pipe up to the conning tower, install my valve, and then route the piping back to the bottom of the ballast tank so that the valve to control the inlet of water is in a reasonable and convenient location (in the tower).  Will the water flow in this circuit of going up to the tower, and back down to the tank ?  I'm assuming it will since it will be under a bit of pressure and increasingly so as the sub takes on water and decends.  I'm not sure how you would gain control of the valve letting in water otherwise.
 
Myles.