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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nemo's Nautilus



Hi Joe.
 
I also live in Hudson, Florida and the wife and I are hunkering down just like you are. I have an old swiss helmet and a U.S. kevlar helmet set out for us in case our roof comes off. Flashlights, 45 pistol, rifle, (for potential looters) raincoats,
 
medical gear, two gas masks already adjusted for our individual faces (no kidding!), sturdy clothing ready to jump into that we might have to wear for days, both bathtubs filled with water to flush toilets if the electricity goes off. Like you,
 
 we are as ready as we can be. Let's hope the damage will not be too bad. But we are ready for the worst. Good luck to you and your family.
 
I'm basically a wetsub man myself. Total wetsub, open cockpit type. So I don't know how much help I can be to you information wise on the ambient design you want to build, but I will try. It is my understanding that in theory an ambient sub
 
does not have to worry too much about the thickness of its hull because in theory the water pressure outside is cancelled out by the air pressure inside and as long as you stay within normal recreational scuba depths and adhere to dive table
 
limits, (like you, I'm a diver) in theory your walls could actually be very thin. I would make them strong enough to take a hit on an underwater reef though if it was me. I have read articles about other people making wooden ambient subs. I do not
 
have the links at this moment but I have read them, so you are not the only one wanting to build an ambient sub out of wood and it does not sound strange to me at all to use wood, fiberglass and epoxy for an ambient design. I do have a link
 
for a 1atm sub made out of wood.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcis_Monturiol_i_Estarriol
 
Also Simon Lake built the 1 atm Argonaut jr out of wood. There were many other early 1 atm designs throughout history too. The Turtle being one. Also the confederate Davids, even though they were really only semi submersibles.
 
Here is a link for reading about and seeing drawings and pics of early submarines with some being made out of wood. It is an Italian site translated badly to English, but you can understand most of the text.
 
http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://rotteufel.iespana.es/subgenesis/sg01_014.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFulton%2527s%2BMute%2Bsubmarine%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
 
You will need a pressure sensitive valve that will sense when the outside pressure is exceeding the internal air pressure and that valve will then open and allow compressed air to enter the interior so the inside always stays equalized to the outside.
 
I do not know exactly where to get it or what that valve is called but I may have to find out if I decide to equalize my wetsub's motor with air instead of oil.  I if decide on motor equalization using air instead of oil, basically the same thing will
 
be going on inside my motor's housing as would be going on inside your ambient hull. They both need to be constantly adjusted for equalization of outside water pressure. One other option is to use a modified scuba regulator that functions the same as the
 
valve I spoke of. But some members here have felt that is not the best or safest way and have suggested using a regular valve instead. Be sure and make it redundant for safety! I include several links showing drawings of pressure equalizing.
 
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050606.223332/air_supply.jpg          http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050606.053338/pressureXsystem.JPG        http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050606.003402/AutoXpressureXcompensatorXusingXairXandXleakXdetector.jpg
 
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050606.003402/SchematicXdiagramXofXautoXpressureXcompensator.jpg  
 
Many of the members here are a LOT more knowledgeable than me and should be able to help you more than I can, but I hope this help you some.
 
Bill.    
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 10:47 PM
Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Nemo's Nautilus

Hello Group,

I wish to introduce myself and my proposed project to this group in an effort to illicit some knowledgeable input.. My name is Joe and I am lucky to live in S. Florida where I have been a diver since 1977 (when everyone was still afraid of Jaws). Retirement for me is 11 years away and I own a home on some acreage in central Florida which will be my construction base. (Nemo?s Vulcania Island as it were).

Some years ago I came across a working 1 atm replica of Nemo?s Nautilus on the web, (a welded steel two man boat I believe). Another fellow in Ca. Built an epoxy-ply semi-submersible replica of a WW1 S-boat. This vessel has a number of view ports amidships and does not submerge. A very clever design with an outboard well. Simple, elegant and functional as basically a "glass bottom tour-boat. Above water she looks like a working S-boat.

Considering the nature and quality of marine plywood in conjunction with modern epoxy composite construction, I believe that it may perhaps be possible to take the concept one step further, (albeit for private uninsured use) and construct a fully submersible ambient pressure boat.

This started the wheels turning and I realized that I could duplicate this with the Nautilus, complete with those side view ports we all know so well. Then I came across both the Venture craft Sportsub and several other commercially available designs and the thought of an ambient pressure diesel-electric boat has been swirling about ever since.

The Nautilus would be easy enough to duplicate in this material and of course, the selection of material rules out a 1 atm boat so ambient it is. One simpler option depending on DWL would be a semi-submersible design where the view ports would be lowered a bit, but why bother with the complexity if not to make her fully submersible.

I know some of you will be horrified at the thought of a "wooden" submarine but, modern epoxies and quality marine-ply should make it doable for an ambient pressure design. With proper consideration of scantlings, I believe the ship would be robust and seaworthy with the majority of maintenance considerations being focused on systems. She would basically be as a WWII fleet boat, a surface ship capable of short term submersion.

Operational rules would be as follows.

#1 The boat never submerges unless those aboard are certified divers. Internal pony bottles and at least two points of egress would be provided. (Most likely Freeman hatches).

#2 The boat never submerges without an escort surface vessel in communication.

#3 The boat never initiates a dive in water depth greater than 30' nor ventures where the bottom is greater than 50'.

In S Florida, that means most of the premier diving locales in N America are within a short distance and quite accessible.

I do have some questions in mind that are unanswered at this point and input would be most greatly appreciated.

#1 I need more info on the air systems in ambient designs, most online material and books appear geared more to 1 atm design. Please point me towards some material. How much airflow in cfm is required to maintain ambient pressure from the surface to 50'? The compressed air requirements have the potential to be a "deal killer" for a fully submersible design, I have not yet done the calculations.

#2 Does some manner of scantling rules exist for GRP designs?

#3 Has anyone else built an ambient design of marine-ply?

And finally, general input as to the concept and choice of materials would be appreciated. I envision this being done with "off the shelf" components but, if I am overlooking something unworkable I may stick to the surface design.

Incidently, another Hurricane, (Wilma) is heading my way tonight. We are shuttered up and hunkered down so I may not see any responses until after power is restored (could be a week or more). I thank you in advance in that event.

Thank You

Joe




From:  Michael Holt <mholt@ohiohills.com>
Reply-To:  personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To:  Personal Submersibles List <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject:  [PSUBS-MAILIST] NASA does sumbmarine research:
Date:  Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:02:29 -0400
>http://ntrs.nasa.gov/index.cgi?method=search&offset=0&mode=advanced&title=&creator=&date=&type=&description=submarine&accessionID=&docID=&boolean=and&orderby=date&order=DESC&limit=25&archives=genesis.jpl.nasa.gov&archives=atrs&archives=casi&archives=dtrs.dfrc.nasa.gov&archives=gtrs&archives=jpl-trs.jpl.nasa.gov&archives=jtrs&archives=ktrs&archives=ltrs.larc.nasa.gov&archives=mtrs&archives=ssctrs&archives=naca.larc.nasa.gov
>
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