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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast valve

Simon, to answer your question: "How does one turn the valve on a K-250/350," they are turned by hand. On the K-250 the hard ballast tank is inside the pressure hull with you, so you merely need to reach over and turn the valves. The K-350 has the hard ballast tank slung underneath the pressure hull, but my bet is that the piping from the tank is run into the psub. If the physical location of the valves is what was hanging you up then perhaps Dan can give us more insight. 

regards,
Shin











From: "Dan H." <jmachine@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast valve
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 23:04:32 -0400

Simon,

This is referring to my Hard Tank.


There are times that there is sufficient pressure in the tank to release
water without adding HP air and there are times when you can add a bit more water without venting the tank again. It's not necessary to vent every time 
you add water or open to the HP air system every time you want to eject a
little bit of water.  The key is, is the tank pressure more then or less
then the sea at the depth your at.  Many times I only open one valve.
Say you have both you water inlet and air vent opened. Now your just leaving the surface so you close your water inlet. then shut off your vent. Now your just a tough heavy so your drifting down slightly. If you want to descend a bit faster you can just open the water valve and water will still enter your tank with our opening the vent since your now in higher pressure water down deeper.
Say you were at the bottom and wanted to lighten your weight. I first give the tank a shot of HP air to get it above the outside water pressure then crack open the water valve. I can open and close the valve as many times as I want and water will exit the tank as long as the pressure is greater then the outside pressure.
To let water into your Hard Tank you only have to vent if your tank pressure is equal to, or above, the outside water pressure. 

Dan H.


----- Original Message ----- From: "SIMON WALKDEN" <mrsym0r@gmail.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast valve



Sorry, but i'm a bit confused..

to flood the main ballast tanks, a valve needs to open in order to
allow air to escape, so there is no longer an air pocket.

On your K-350, how do you open and close this valve?

-Simon

On 7/3/05, Dan H. <jmachine@adelphia.net> wrote:

Simon,

Yes, I have a K-350
I think you may be complicating things. The three valve system works well. 
There are times that there is sufficient pressure in the tank to release
water without adding HP air and there are times when you can add a bit more water without venting the tank again. It's not necessary to vent every time 
you add water or open to the HP air system every time you want to eject a
little bit of water.  The key is, is the tank pressure more then or less
then the sea at the depth your at.  Many times I only open one valve.

Dan H.

----- Original Message -----
From: "SIMON WALKDEN" <mrsym0r@gmail.com>
To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast valve


> Dan, I take it you've got a K-350 of your own? :-)
>
> In my mind, I've got a picture of a tank, with two valves; one above
> the other, with a rod between the two. In the hole on the top for the
> top valve, there is a small amount of circular tubing going down into
> the hard ballast tank (thanks for letting me know the right name :-)
> ), which the valve rests in. When the piston moves upwards, this has
> made both valves open. When the piston is moved back to 'normal', both
> valves are sealed. When the piston moves  downwards, the bottom valve
> is now open, however the top valve is still sealed by the extra length
> of circular tubing, giving the three stages a hard ballast could be in
> (flooding, normal, dumping).
>
> The only part left in this little theory of mine is how to make this
> piston move upwards and downwards. Could hydraulics be a possibility?
> I tossed this idea around, but had concerns such as the hydraulic
> hosing being exposed to exterior pressure, which would be greater than
> its internal pressure, and forcing the hydraulic master cylinder to
> burst.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/3/05, Dan H. <jmachine@adelphia.net> wrote:
>> Simon,
>>
>> What you are describing is the hard ballast tank.  It's used to set
>> neutral
>> buoyancy.  It has to be able to take the pressure of the deep from
>> outside
>> and you HP air system pressure from within. You have the operation >> down 
>> exactly correct.
>>
>> The open bottom tanks on a K-250, 350 are referred to as soft tanks.
>> They
>> are open bottom and do burp. They can be just about totally enclosed >> but >> you should leave a vent hole to the sea so you don't inadvertently >> leave >> some air in it and dive deep. They are not made to withstand neither >> the >> pressure of deep diving or your HP system pressure. These open bottom 
>> MBT
>> tanks are used to raise the sub up out of the water so you can open >> the >> conning tower hatch and not flood the sub. They are either full of >> air 
>> or
>> full of water.
>>
>> On the hard tank, you do need a water inlet/outlet valve, an air vent
>> valve
>> and a HP air valve to blow the water out when you have to. I didn't >> put 
>> a
>> pressure gauge on mine to monitor tank pressure, but I'll probably add 
>> one
>> sometime.
>>
>> Dan H.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "SIMON WALKDEN" <mrsym0r@gmail.com>
>> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 4:39 PM
>> Subject: [PSUBS-MAILIST] ballast valve
>>
>>
>> > Hi again,
>> >
>> > I've been thinking about how a simple valve could be used to vent a
>> > ballast, and i'm a bit stuck for ideas. The way I understand it is
>> > this:
>> >
>> > WHEN OPEN FOR FLOODING : a vent opens on the bottom side to allow
>> > water in, a vent opens on the top to allow escaping air out, and
>> > ballast air is not pumped in.
>> >
>> > WHEN IN NORMAL STATE (NOT FLOODING OR EMPTYING) : the top and bottom 
>> > vents are closed, ballast air is not being pumped in.
>> >
>> > WHEN EMPTYING BALLAST : a vent opens on the bottom to allow escaping 
>> > water out, the top vent remains closed, ballast air is pumped in to
>> > push the water out.
>> >
>> > So, you've got two vents that need to be opened and closed, and
>> > compressed air that will at times need to be released into the >> > ballast 
>> > tanks.
>> >
>> >
>> > In this example, I've not used the K-250/K-350 design of an open
>> > ballast tank, as I've read in several people's posts that they've >> > been >> > a bit unimpressed with their ballast tanks 'burping' when travelling 
>> > on the surface.
>> >
>> > Has anybody had any thoughts about this in the past?
>> >
>> > -Simon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >


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