Jim,
Sorry but I have to agree with the advice you've
been given in here so far. The peddle power isn't a big deal.
Captain Kittredge has a peddle powered sub and has fun with it. It does
increase your O2 consumption and reduces the time you can dive but it's no
different then a biker.
There are a few things to keep in mind when tempted
to buy a sub like this.
One, why didn't the builder ever dive
it? Does he know something you don't?
Two, you won't ever trust it to dive deep if you
don't test it first. That means putting it on a line and sending it,
unmanned, to at least 1-1/2 times the depth your going to dive it. If it
holds together you got a sub on the line, if it crushes you got junk on a
rope. Do you feel comfortable with possible loosing your investment?
You could have this done in a pressure chamber but a flat sub is junk no
matter if it's on the bottom or in a tank.
Along with the deficiencies already pointed
out in the hull, I see there is no reinforcement where the conning
tower meets the hull. This is a high stress area and has to be beefed
up. You can modify some of it, like welding in framing, a reinforcing
collar but you can also start form scratch and know what you have. The
oval shaped conning tower is another point against diving to a substantial depth
in this sub. A K sub is held to 1/8 inch out of round when built and is
stiffened with a frame every foot of hull length. A K sub also has 3/4
steel plate rolled to form a heavy reinforcing collar where the conning tower
meets the hull. The E-bay sub is only very little like a K sub. I
contacted a used boat and sub dealer a few years ago and was told that a used
K-350 usually goes for something in the area of $35,000 depending on the
construction and condition, more, if it has more amities.
I have to say, it looks good at first. They
sure made an attractive looking sub but I doubt it would survive more then
ten or twenty feet of water. For all we know the thing may
not even be water tight at all and only a static display.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with
building from a propane tank but I see no advantage either. It's harder to
work in a tank then a tube, the end caps are probably the same thickness as
the hull, and your only guessing about the material but then, you have the
hull rolled and end caps in place. A K-350 uses 1/4 inch thick hull and
3/8 inch thick endcaps. Why don't you think about building your own K sub from
scratch? You could trim it out with add on brick-a-brack to make it
look like this one if you desire, but at least you know, under the showy stuff,
you got a working sub.
If all you want is a near surface sub to ride in
and show, then this may be for you. I doubt the builder would dive it past
ten feet of depth. He hasn't so far!
Dan H
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:21
AM
Subject: RE: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re:
"working" Disney(ish) Nautilus has a Propane Tank Hull.
Hi everyone, and thanks for your replies so far. Very
helpful.
I've just learned that the Ebay sub has a modified propane tank for its
pressure hull. I believe there have been discussions about that very
subject here before. Is anyone willing to briefly outline the pros and
cons of using a propane tank as the basic pressure hull for a psub?
Also, I'm interested in your discussion of oval shaped pressure hulls,
especially since the tower on the Ebay sub is oval shaped, and sits on a large
oval shaped hole in the propane tank hull. Am I correct in assuming that
might decrease hull strength against presssure?
And can anyone tell me what a fair price of a Kittredge K-250 submarine
might be? I've learned the Ebay sub takes much of
it's design from the K-250. The owner says similar subs sell
for $100,000.00, and he is asking $45,000.00 for the Ebay sub. Does that
sound about right?
Thanks to everyone for the assistance. This is a great place to get
information about psubs.
Jim
solomon D <solomondees@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I
can see what you mean about this ebay submarine. It
looks as if it was
built mainly for looks with no real
intentions of it diving. There seems
to be no kind of
internal bracing that a pressure hull should have.
If
you added all the additional bracing, drive
system,controls and
equipment needed to really dive
there wouldnt be any room left for a
pilot. The view
ports seem to be an after thought just cut out
and
bolted on. Who knows how well the welds were done? I
doubt that it
is even water tight on the surface.
--- Alec Smyth
wrote:
> I'm afraid I wouldn't touch it,
sorry. Often people
> come up with ideas
> about subs that
should look cool, like say a fighter
> plane or some Star
> Wars
space craft. They then try to design something
> to match the
>
particular loo! k they have in mind. But I think subs
> should be
designed
> in exactly the opposite way; the laws of physics
and
> the limitations of
> materials dictate most decisions, and
the appearance
> (unfortunately) is
> a bit of a by-product.
This sub is an entirely
> aesthetics-driven design.
> Notice the
endcaps made of flat plate wedges, for
> example? Those would
>
surely concentrate stresses. I would worry that if
> someone's
primary
> motivation is the "look" of a sub, they probably
>
have not done any
> stress calculations, used appropriate
materials,
> done full penetration
> welds, put just the right
depth on an o-ring groove,
> etc., etc. The last
> thing you
want in a submarine is to go etcetera
> hunting.
>
> It
looks like it's nicely made, and may even dive
> safely to a few
feet,
> but can anyone tell how many? I would not want to be>
the one to find
> out.
>
> :-(
>
>
Alec
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
>
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On
> Behalf Of Jim
Pesanka
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:29 AM
> To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: 1
(2?) man
> "working" Disney(ish)
> Nautilus sub on ebay
>
> Thanks Ian. Very informative, and I appreciate the
> effort
you went to.
> You've given me much to think about that I
wouldn't
> have realized on my
> own.
>
> Would
anyone else care to comment on the Ebay sub
> please? I'd like
to
> gather as many opinions as I can. Perhaps some of
> you
with actual
> experience? Dan, Carsten, Alec. Vance, or others?
> And also those who
> may have not actually built a psub yet
but have
> spent some time
> designing them. Does the Ebay
Nautilus sub look
> like a good one to you
> or not, and why?
>
> I guess what I'm asking is, "What should an
>
inexperienced prospective
> buyer (like me) be aware of about this
particular
> type of submarine?"
>
> Only five days left
in the auction.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jim
>
> Ian Roxborough wrote:
>
> Welcome,
Jim.
>
> The "K250/350 hybrid" was a submarine that was
for
> sale on ebay
> in
> late 2004. It was close (rather
subjective) to my
> house so I
> took
> a look to see if
it was worth buying. It was made
> from K250
> plans,
>
but with lots of changes from the builder (some
> bad), it
also
> had
> some K350 styling such as the conning tower.
The
> picture are on
> the moki picture exchange under "2 person
k250".
>
> Internal framing. Most pressure vessel have
ribs
> along the
> inside
> (or outside) of the pressure
vessel. These are very
> important
> and
> are the only
reason the sub can dive deep without
> being crushed.
> If you
look at this picture in the K250 hybrid I
> was talking
>
about:
>
>
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20041127.134008/Kx50_hybrid5.jpg
>
You seen "hoops" on the inside of the
> pressure-vessel spaced
>
every
> so often. If you look at the picture of of the na!
>
utilus sub:
>
>
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050605.153205/f9_3.JPG
>
There are no "hooks" space every so often. There is
> a band
on
> the
> inside, maybe it's for mounting equipment, but
it
> won't provide
> much re-enforcement of the pressure vessel
(even if
> there where
> many of them). This is big reason! I
would not dive
> in it. Maybe
> it's safe to pop under the water
can come back up,
> but without
> proper ribbing it will have a
shallower colapse
> depth. The
> colapse depth can be
calculated, but any out of
> roundness in the
> hull will reduce
it further.
>
> "little bottles". I meant little bolts (sorry I
was
> sleepy) as
> in nuts'n'bolts. They go all the way thru the
view
> port housing
> from the inside to the outside. This means
drilling
> holes in the
> viewports. As well as more holes in
the sub...
>
> I think the peddle power is via a hand
crank.
> Rather than foot
> peddles. The prop looks pretty, but
my gut says
> that sub won't
> go over 1knot under it's own
power.
>
> "never been underwater yet" means you are buying
a
> pile of
> submarine
> shaped scrap metal. You will be
the one that makes
> it a
> submarine,
> by removing what
is wrong, sanding the paint and
> inspecting all
> the
>
welds, grinding out and re-welding where needed,
> fitting the
>
missing
> components, adjusting things for short comings in
>
the design...
> I don't mean to put you off, just give you an
idea
> of what you
> are
> getting into. I would do it if
I found the right
> sub.
>
> I like the two large side
viewports. It looks like
> it might be
> the same as the forward
big viewport. This is a
> change I that
> I've
> often
thought would be nice on the K350, but the
> would have to
>
be
> bigger housing inside the sub in order to support
> the
ribs that
> it
> would need to disrupt.
>
> Hope
this helps,
> Ian.
>
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:59:27 -0700
(PDT)
> Jim Pesanka wrote:
>
> &g! t; Hello everyone,
> >
> > My name is Jim and I have ! been a member
of
> Psubs for a
> while. I have a genuine interest in
submarines and
> especially the
> personal variety, though I
have not actually built
> one yet. I've enjoyed
> reading the
messages I've found here, but this is
> the first time I've
>
had a reason to actually post one myself. I have a
> question, but
first
> allow me to express my congratulations to your new
>
psub owner, Pierre,
> on his recent success with the submersible
"Big". I
> look
=== message truncated
===
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