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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: 1 (2?) man "working" Disney(ish) Nautilus sub on ebay
I think the flat plate wedges are forming the front and rear ballast
tanks. In one of the photos you get a peep at the front end cap, I
would guess it's 1:4 eliptical. Can't tell for sure, but it would
make sense to do this.
I agree with your comments about the ebay sub, but I general I like
the "art" subs (when done properly). Maybe due the there lack of
function (deep diving, pick things, etc.) they should have a class
of there own. Two good examples of art subs that spring to mind or
Pat Regan's Nautilus Minisub and the Bionic Dolphin.
http://www.psubs.org/psub_pic/nemo_pic.html
http://www.bionicdolphin.com/
Function is still number one for me in what I want from a sub.
Cheers,
Ian.
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:01:13 -0400
"Alec Smyth" <Alec.Smyth@compuware.com> wrote:
> I'm afraid I wouldn't touch it, sorry. Often people come up with ideas
> about subs that should look cool, like say a fighter plane or some Star
> Wars space craft. They then try to design something to match the
> particular look they have in mind. But I think subs should be designed
> in exactly the opposite way; the laws of physics and the limitations of
> materials dictate most decisions, and the appearance (unfortunately) is
> a bit of a by-product. This sub is an entirely aesthetics-driven design.
> Notice the endcaps made of flat plate wedges, for example? Those would
> surely concentrate stresses. I would worry that if someone's primary
> motivation is the "look" of a sub, they probably have not done any
> stress calculations, used appropriate materials, done full penetration
> welds, put just the right depth on an o-ring groove, etc., etc. The last
> thing you want in a submarine is to go etcetera hunting.
>
> It looks like it's nicely made, and may even dive safely to a few feet,
> but can anyone tell how many? I would not want to be the one to find
> out.
>
> :-(
>
> Alec
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> [mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jim Pesanka
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:29 AM
> To: personal_submersibles@psubs.org
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: 1 (2?) man "working" Disney(ish)
> Nautilus sub on ebay
>
> Thanks Ian. Very informative, and I appreciate the effort you went to.
> You've given me much to think about that I wouldn't have realized on my
> own.
>
> Would anyone else care to comment on the Ebay sub please? I'd like to
> gather as many opinions as I can. Perhaps some of you with actual
> experience? Dan, Carsten, Alec. Vance, or others? And also those who
> may have not actually built a psub yet but have spent some time
> designing them. Does the Ebay Nautilus sub look like a good one to you
> or not, and why?
>
> I guess what I'm asking is, "What should an inexperienced prospective
> buyer (like me) be aware of about this particular type of submarine?"
>
> Only five days left in the auction.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jim
>
> Ian Roxborough <irox@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Welcome, Jim.
>
> The "K250/350 hybrid" was a submarine that was for sale on ebay
> in
> late 2004. It was close (rather subjective) to my house so I
> took
> a look to see if it was worth buying. It was made from K250
> plans,
> but with lots of changes from the builder (some bad), it also
> had
> some K350 styling such as the conning tower. The picture are on
> the moki picture exchange under "2 person k250".
>
> Internal framing. Most pressure vessel have ribs along the
> inside
> (or outside) of the pressure vessel. These are very important
> and
> are the only reason the sub can dive deep without being crushed.
> If you look at this picture in the K250 hybrid I was talking
> about:
> http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20041127.134008/Kx50_hybrid5.jpg
> You seen "hoops" on the inside of the pressure-vessel spaced
> every
> so often. If you look at the picture of of the na! utilus sub:
> http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050605.153205/f9_3.JPG
> There are no "hooks" space every so often. There is a band on
> the
> inside, maybe it's for mounting equipment, but it won't provide
> much re-enforcement of the pressure vessel (even if there where
> many of them). This is big reason I would not dive in it. Maybe
> it's safe to pop under the water can come back up, but without
> proper ribbing it will have a shallower colapse depth. The
> colapse depth can be calculated, but any out of roundness in the
> hull will reduce it further.
>
> "little bottles". I meant little bolts (sorry I was sleepy) as
> in nuts'n'bolts. They go all the way thru the view port housing
> from the inside to the outside. This means drilling holes in the
> viewports. As well as more holes in the sub...
>
> I think the peddle power is via a hand crank. Rather than foot
> peddles. The prop looks pretty, but my gut says that sub won't
> go over 1knot under it's own power.
>
> "never been underwater yet" means you are buying a pile of
> submarine
> shaped scrap metal. You will be the one that makes it a
> submarine,
> by removing what is wrong, sanding the paint and inspecting all
> the
> welds, grinding out and re-welding where needed, fitting the
> missing
> components, adjusting things for short comings in the design...
> I don't mean to put you off, just give you an idea of what you
> are
> getting into. I would do it if I found the right sub.
>
> I like the two large side viewports. It looks like it might be
> the same as the forward big viewport. This is a change I that
> I've
> often thought would be nice on the K350, but the would have to
> be
> bigger housing inside the sub in order to support the ribs that
> it
> would need to disrupt.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Ian.
>
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
> Jim Pesanka wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > My name is Jim and I have ! been a member of Psubs for a
> while. I have a genuine interest in submarines and especially the
> personal variety, though I have not actually built one yet. I've enjoyed
> reading the messages I've found here, but this is the first time I've
> had a reason to actually post one myself. I have a question, but first
> allow me to express my congratulations to your new psub owner, Pierre,
> on his recent success with the submersible "Big". I look forward to
> seeing pictures of it.
> >
> > To my question: it concerns the Nautilus sub on Ebay. It's not
> often a submarine comes up for sale. There is some interest in buying
> this one, but many of us have little understanding of what a sub like
> this should (or should not) be like. We would appreciate the
> observations of those with more knowledge than we possess.
> >
> > I found Ian and Mike's comments informative. Thank you both.
> >
> > Ian, Could you explain what a K250/350 hybrid is? And would
> you expand on the lack of "! internal framing" you mentioned? Also the
> "little bottles" at the viewports, please? And especially your comment
> that you "wouldn't dive in it": This leads me to think it might be
> unsafe. Obviously, that's important to any of us thinking of buying this
> sub. Please give us some reasons why you feel that way, if you will.
> >
> > Mike, you made some enlightening observations as well. Please
> go into a little greater depth on the subject, will you? (Oh my! I
> honestly did not intend a pun there, but the deed is done.)
> >
> > Will everyone here, please, take a look at the Ebay auction
> and the pictures of this sub, and give us your thoughts and
> observations? Does this look like a well designed and soundly built
> submarine we should feel safe in, or not? And in either case, why?
> >
> > Other questions include: "What is the importance of the
> seller's statement that this sub has never been underwater yet?" and
> "What do you estimate a fair price for this submarine t! o be?"
> >
> > I'm wondering about it being "pedal powered". I assume that
> means it works like a bicycle, and would like to know how efficient that
> would be in a sub of this size and weight, especially with the propeller
> being of the unusual type shown? What would you all estimate the top
> speed of such a vessel to be, if that's possible to determine?
> >
> > With what can be known of the submarine from available
> information, is it possible to determine how reliable it might be
> underwater, and what depths it might successfully attain?
> >
> > Any other comments and observations you'd care to make will be
> appreciated, and could be very important to someone's safety, so please
> don't hold back or worry about being "politically correct". If you think
> this is a good sub, please say so and explain why. If not, we need to
> know that, too.
> >
> > I'd also beg for this topic to receive some priority from the
> group, as the auction will only be up for a l! imited time. Your
> comments may be vitally important, and time is of the essence. Thank
> you.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > Michael Holt wrote:
> > Ian Roxborough wrote:
> >
> > > It reminds me a little of the K250/350 hybird, but with no
> internal
> > > framing. The same skinny viewport housings. Maybe the
> builder had
> > > seen a set of K250 plans. The inside picture has a shot of
> the
> > > viewport housing, with little bottles that appear to go all
> the way
> > > thru the housing! Looks pretty, I wouldn't dive in it.
> >
> > I'd kinda like to talk with him. Does that address on ebay
> really
> > work? I've had some trouble with ebay addresses.
> >
> > Pedal-powered, he suggests. No propulsion system is fitted, it
> > seems. I bet it's planned to do nothing more than dip a few
> feet
> > under the surface.
> >
> > In the background of one ima! ge, there's what looksl ike a
> small
> > replica of a steam locomotive. The sub may have been nothing
> > more than a welding project for him.
> >
> > Thanks, Ian.
> >
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
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