I’m afraid I wouldn’t touch it,
sorry. Often people come up with ideas about subs that should look cool, like
say a fighter plane or some Star Wars space craft. They then try to design
something to match the particular look they have in mind. But I think subs should
be designed in exactly the opposite way; the laws of physics and the
limitations of materials dictate most decisions, and the appearance (unfortunately)
is a bit of a by-product. This sub is an entirely aesthetics-driven design.
Notice the endcaps made of flat plate wedges, for example? Those would surely concentrate
stresses. I would worry that if someone’s primary motivation is the “look”
of a sub, they probably have not done any stress calculations, used appropriate
materials, done full penetration welds, put just the right depth on an o-ring
groove, etc., etc. The last thing you want in a submarine is to go etcetera
hunting.
It looks like it’s nicely made, and
may even dive safely to a few feet, but can anyone tell how many? I would not
want to be the one to find out.
L
Alec
-----Original Message-----
From:
owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org
[mailto:owner-personal_submersibles@psubs.org] On Behalf Of Jim Pesanka
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 5:29
AM
To:
personal_submersibles@psubs.org
Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] Re: 1
(2?) man "working" Disney(ish) Nautilus sub on ebay
Thanks Ian. Very informative, and I appreciate
the effort you went to. You've given me much to think about that I
wouldn't have realized on my own.
Would anyone else care to comment
on the Ebay sub please? I'd like to gather as many
opinions as I can. Perhaps some of you with actual experience?
Dan, Carsten, Alec. Vance, or others? And also those who may have not
actually built a psub yet but have spent some time designing them. Does
the Ebay Nautilus sub look like a good one to you or not, and why?
I guess what I'm asking is, "What should an
inexperienced prospective buyer (like me) be aware of about this particular
type of submarine?"
Only five days left in the auction.
Jim
Ian Roxborough
<irox@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
Welcome, Jim.
The "K250/350 hybrid" was a submarine that was for sale on ebay in
late 2004. It was close (rather subjective) to my house so I took
a look to see if it was worth buying. It was made from K250 plans,
but with lots of changes from the builder (some bad), it also had
some K350 styling such as the conning tower. The picture are on
the moki picture exchange under "2 person k250".
Internal framing. Most pressure vessel have ribs along the inside
(or outside) of the pressure vessel. These are very important and
are the only reason the sub can dive deep without being crushed.
If you look at this picture in the K250 hybrid I was talking about:
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20041127.134008/Kx50_hybrid5.jpg
You seen "hoops" on the inside of the pressure-vessel spaced every
so often. If you look at the picture of of the na! utilus sub:
http://www.prismnet.com/~moki/20050605.153205/f9_3.JPG
There are no "hooks" space every so often. There is a band on the
inside, maybe it's for mounting equipment, but it won't provide
much re-enforcement of the pressure vessel (even if there where
many of them). This is big reason I would not dive in it. Maybe
it's safe to pop under the water can come back up, but without
proper ribbing it will have a shallower colapse depth. The
colapse depth can be calculated, but any out of roundness in the
hull will reduce it further.
"little bottles". I meant little bolts (sorry I was sleepy) as
in nuts'n'bolts. They go all the way thru the view port housing
from the inside to the outside. This means drilling holes in the
viewports. As well as more holes in the sub...
I think the peddle power is via a hand crank. Rather than foot
peddles. The prop looks pretty, but my gut says that sub won't
go over 1knot under it's own power.
"never been underwater yet" means you are buying a pile of submarine
shaped scrap metal. You will be the one that makes it a submarine,
by removing what is wrong, sanding the paint and inspecting all the
welds, grinding out and re-welding where needed, fitting the missing
components, adjusting things for short comings in the design...
I don't mean to put you off, just give you an idea of what you are
getting into. I would do it if I found the right sub.
I like the two large side viewports. It looks like it might be
the same as the forward big viewport. This is a change I that I've
often thought would be nice on the K350, but the would have to be
bigger housing inside the sub in order to support the ribs that it
would need to disrupt.
Hope this helps,
Ian.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
Jim Pesanka wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> My name is Jim and I have ! been a member of Psubs for a while. I have a
genuine interest in submarines and especially the personal variety, though I
have not actually built one yet. I've enjoyed reading the messages I've found
here, but this is the first time I've had a reason to actually post one myself.
I have a question, but first allow me to express my congratulations to your new
psub owner, Pierre, on his recent success with the submersible "Big".
I look forward to seeing pictures of it.
>
> To my question: it concerns the Nautilus sub on Ebay. It's not often a
submarine comes up for sale. There is some interest in buying this one, but
many of us have little understanding of what a sub like this should (or should
not) be like. We would appreciate the observations of those with more knowledge
than we possess.
>
> I found Ian and Mike's comments informative. Thank you both.
>
> Ian, Could you explain what a K250/350 hybrid is? And would you expand on
the lack of "! internal framing" you mentioned? Also the "little
bottles" at the viewports, please? And especially your comment that you
"wouldn't dive in it": This leads me to think it might be unsafe. Obviously,
that's important to any of us thinking of buying this sub. Please give us some
reasons why you feel that way, if you will.
>
> Mike, you made some enlightening observations as well. Please go into a
little greater depth on the subject, will you? (Oh my! I honestly did not
intend a pun there, but the deed is done.)
>
> Will everyone here, please, take a look at the Ebay auction and the
pictures of this sub, and give us your thoughts and observations? Does this
look like a well designed and soundly built submarine we should feel safe in,
or not? And in either case, why?
>
> Other questions include: "What is the importance of the seller's
statement that this sub has never been underwater yet?" and "What do
you estimate a fair price for this submarine t! o be?"
>
> I'm wondering about it being "pedal powered". I assume that
means it works like a bicycle, and would like to know how efficient that would
be in a sub of this size and weight, especially with the propeller being of the
unusual type shown? What would you all estimate the top speed of such a vessel
to be, if that's possible to determine?
>
> With what can be known of the submarine from available information, is it
possible to determine how reliable it might be underwater, and what depths it
might successfully attain?
>
> Any other comments and observations you'd care to make will be
appreciated, and could be very important to someone's safety, so please don't
hold back or worry about being "politically correct". If you think
this is a good sub, please say so and explain why. If not, we need to know
that, too.
>
> I'd also beg for this topic to receive some priority from the group, as
the auction will only be up for a l! imited time. Your comments may be vitally
important, and time is of the essence. Thank you.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jim
>
>
> Michael Holt wrote:
> Ian Roxborough wrote:
>
> > It reminds me a little of the K250/350 hybird, but with no internal
> > framing. The same skinny viewport housings. Maybe the builder had
> > seen a set of K250 plans. The inside picture has a shot of the
> > viewport housing, with little bottles that appear to go all the way
> > thru the housing! Looks pretty, I wouldn't dive in it.
>
> I'd kinda like to talk with him. Does that address on ebay really
> work? I've had some trouble with ebay addresses.
>
> Pedal-powered, he suggests. No propulsion system is fitted, it
> seems. I bet it's planned to do nothing more than dip a few feet
> under the surface.
>
> In the background of one ima! ge, there's what looksl ike a small
> replica of a steam locomotive. The sub may have been nothing
> more than a welding project for him.
>
> Thanks, Ian.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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