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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES



Thanks Brian,

Sounds fine !  I don't want to come across on a moral high horse and
become the very thing I dislike.  I just do not care for "political
correctness"
and "feel-good politics" to muddy science and objective thinking.
Sometimes one needs to watch the watchers.  I would like to keep this
subject and thread alive and present references/issues without editorial
and personal commentary..."just the facts"...and let others come to their
own conclusions and action.

Here are some refs that might be of interest :

The Submarine as a Class of Archaeological Site
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/submarin.htm

The GLOBE Program
http://www.globe.gov/fsl/html/aboutglobe.cgi?intro&lang=en&nav=1

Take care, --Steve


On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:49:35 -0700 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net> writes:
> Steven,
>                A recent article in the LA times orange county 
> edition highlighted the efforts of a independent volunteer group 
> "the coastkeepers" to reintroduce giant kelp to the Laguna -Newport 
> beach area.  The kelp has disappeared from some areas due to 
> overfishing of sheepshead and lobster, and other fish that eat sea 
> urchins.  Once the sea urchins get the upper hand they start 
> munching on the kelp.  I believe that the group is totally 
> independent.  It would be possible to form ones own group like this 
> and put your sub into action.  This group received grants form the 
> National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.  Basically what 
> they are doing is just planting kelp in various spots.  The Kelp 
> forests help sustain many species of fish ( also keeps the chop down 
> for surfing !!)  I can't really see anything bad about a project 
> like this.  If a psubber formed his/or her own group like this that 
> would be a beneficial project and you could have fun doing it as 
> well !
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steven Mills" <cirtemoeg@juno.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES
> 
> 
> > Brian,
> > 
> > I think that's a good idea.  However, personally, I hate politics 
> and
> > organizations whose political agenda supercedes scientific research
> > 'they' pretend to represent. So, be wary of what and who you hook 
> up
> > with IMHO.  The one you consider joining just might be the one that
> > does us all in.
> > 
> > Check out Society for Amateur Science ;  www.sas.org
> > 
> > Shawn Carlson, the president of SAS, was formerly with Scientific
> > American
> > and carried on the tradition of C.L Stong's   "The Amateur 
> Scientists'"
> > projects column. [ no longer featured in that mag. ]
> > 
> > They have lobbied with lawmakers, with success, in promoting and
> > fostering individual civilian research and projects and access to
> > resources
> > that would not normally be available to non academics and
> > nonprofessionals.
> > 
> > --Steve
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:35:35 -0700 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> > writes:
> > >         Maybe a plan of hooking up with some type of 
> organization 
> > > would help in deflecting problems with bureaucrats that have 
> nothing 
> > > better to than think of ways to ruin your day.  I'm thinking 
> once I 
> > > get my sub up and running is to get together with a group that 
> > > monitors fish and kelp beds for identifying trends and problems. 
>  
> > > That way they might stay off your back and you might gain some 
> > > community support.
> > > 
> > > Brian
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Steven Mills" <cirtemoeg@juno.com>
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:48:57 -0500 David Buchner 
> > > <buchner@wcta.net>
> > > > writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > (Upon reading Gordon's question this morning, I launched 
> into 
> > > > > reading 
> > > > > about 10 articles about runaway regulation at 
> > > > > http://www.capmag.com/category.asp?action=cat&catID=60 -- so 
> now 
> > > my 
> > > > > blood pressure's up and now I'm feeling all cornered and 
> ornery!)
> > > > >
> > > > > ....................snip......................... -- but it 
> > > stinks that
> > > > we must look 
> > > > > over 
> > > > > our shoulders, worrying we'll run afoul of petty bureaucrats 
> and 
> > > > > anxious busybodies -- instead of just concentrating on real, 
> > > > > practical 
> > > > > dangers, and being safe and responsible.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > My sentiments, too !
> > > > 
> > > > There is an overwhelming amount of administrative and 
> regulatory 
> > > law.
> > > > Some of it conflicts with other agencies and I suspect much of 
> it 
> > > is a
> > > > means
> > > > of exacting revenue thru fines.
> > > > What I endeavor to do is cut thru the kludge and present what 
> is
> > > > pertinent
> > > > without the paperchase.
> > > > 
> > > > There are basic things to keep in mind to protect oneself.
> > > > 
> > > > Have and carry your paperwork [ *copies* keep originals in a 
> safe 
> > > place ]
> > > > ie.,  inspection certs, insurance, map, and dive plan...etc.
> > > > 
> > > > Always notify and get permission [ where required and *in 
> writing* 
> > > ]  If
> > > > the
> > > > public waterway has both NPS and Coast Guard jurisdiction, 
> then 
> > > notify
> > > > both.
> > > > 
> > > > Public lands are governed by the general regs, but may also 
> have 
> > > specific
> > > > rules determined by activity, for example, a university 
> > > archaeological
> > > > site,
> > > > hazard areas, and EPA sensitive areas. Check ahead of time.
> > > > 
> > > > Plan your launch/dive around the holidays.  Recreation traffic 
> is
> > > > heaviest
> > > > on holidays and the incidents of accidents, carelessness,  and 
> > > injury are
> > > > statistically high. You might be the safest most conscientious 
> > > person
> > > > in the world, but there is always someone who is not and you 
> might 
> > > be
> > > > the unlucky one to meet them.
> > > > 
> > > > Lest you think that your activity will take you out to sea, 
> away 
> > > from the
> > > > general populus or outside territorial limits, the UN and 
> UNESCO 
> > > are
> > > > getting into the act with regulations, too.   I'll have these 
> > > documents
> > > > too.
> > > > 
> > > > I know !....it's a pain in the arse, and we are simply 
> concerned 
> > > with
> > > > building
> > > > our subs and getting it into the water.  But you very well can 
> find
> > > > yourself into
> > > > a legal mess [ and maybe a heavy fine ] quite by innocence or 
> thru 
> > > no
> > > > fault of your own.  Do the homework and good planning !
> > > > 
> > > > David, how's the little Lady doing ?  How are you and the 
> Missus'
> > > > ...tired? :-)
> > > > 
> > > > --Steve
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> ________________________________________________________________
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> > >
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The personal submersibles mailing list complies with the US Federal
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