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Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES
Thanks Brian,
Sounds fine ! I don't want to come across on a moral high horse and
become the very thing I dislike. I just do not care for "political
correctness"
and "feel-good politics" to muddy science and objective thinking.
Sometimes one needs to watch the watchers. I would like to keep this
subject and thread alive and present references/issues without editorial
and personal commentary..."just the facts"...and let others come to their
own conclusions and action.
Here are some refs that might be of interest :
The Submarine as a Class of Archaeological Site
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/submarin.htm
The GLOBE Program
http://www.globe.gov/fsl/html/aboutglobe.cgi?intro&lang=en&nav=1
Take care, --Steve
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:49:35 -0700 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net> writes:
> Steven,
> A recent article in the LA times orange county
> edition highlighted the efforts of a independent volunteer group
> "the coastkeepers" to reintroduce giant kelp to the Laguna -Newport
> beach area. The kelp has disappeared from some areas due to
> overfishing of sheepshead and lobster, and other fish that eat sea
> urchins. Once the sea urchins get the upper hand they start
> munching on the kelp. I believe that the group is totally
> independent. It would be possible to form ones own group like this
> and put your sub into action. This group received grants form the
> National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Basically what
> they are doing is just planting kelp in various spots. The Kelp
> forests help sustain many species of fish ( also keeps the chop down
> for surfing !!) I can't really see anything bad about a project
> like this. If a psubber formed his/or her own group like this that
> would be a beneficial project and you could have fun doing it as
> well !
>
> Brian
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Mills" <cirtemoeg@juno.com>
> To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES
>
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > I think that's a good idea. However, personally, I hate politics
> and
> > organizations whose political agenda supercedes scientific research
> > 'they' pretend to represent. So, be wary of what and who you hook
> up
> > with IMHO. The one you consider joining just might be the one that
> > does us all in.
> >
> > Check out Society for Amateur Science ; www.sas.org
> >
> > Shawn Carlson, the president of SAS, was formerly with Scientific
> > American
> > and carried on the tradition of C.L Stong's "The Amateur
> Scientists'"
> > projects column. [ no longer featured in that mag. ]
> >
> > They have lobbied with lawmakers, with success, in promoting and
> > fostering individual civilian research and projects and access to
> > resources
> > that would not normally be available to non academics and
> > nonprofessionals.
> >
> > --Steve
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:35:35 -0700 "Brian Cox" <ojaibees@ojai.net>
> > writes:
> > > Maybe a plan of hooking up with some type of
> organization
> > > would help in deflecting problems with bureaucrats that have
> nothing
> > > better to than think of ways to ruin your day. I'm thinking
> once I
> > > get my sub up and running is to get together with a group that
> > > monitors fish and kelp beds for identifying trends and problems.
>
> > > That way they might stay off your back and you might gain some
> > > community support.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steven Mills" <cirtemoeg@juno.com>
> > > To: <personal_submersibles@psubs.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 9:29 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [PSUBS-MAILIST] BOATING AND WATER USE ACTIVITIES
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:48:57 -0500 David Buchner
> > > <buchner@wcta.net>
> > > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > (Upon reading Gordon's question this morning, I launched
> into
> > > > > reading
> > > > > about 10 articles about runaway regulation at
> > > > > http://www.capmag.com/category.asp?action=cat&catID=60 -- so
> now
> > > my
> > > > > blood pressure's up and now I'm feeling all cornered and
> ornery!)
> > > > >
> > > > > ....................snip......................... -- but it
> > > stinks that
> > > > we must look
> > > > > over
> > > > > our shoulders, worrying we'll run afoul of petty bureaucrats
> and
> > > > > anxious busybodies -- instead of just concentrating on real,
> > > > > practical
> > > > > dangers, and being safe and responsible.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > My sentiments, too !
> > > >
> > > > There is an overwhelming amount of administrative and
> regulatory
> > > law.
> > > > Some of it conflicts with other agencies and I suspect much of
> it
> > > is a
> > > > means
> > > > of exacting revenue thru fines.
> > > > What I endeavor to do is cut thru the kludge and present what
> is
> > > > pertinent
> > > > without the paperchase.
> > > >
> > > > There are basic things to keep in mind to protect oneself.
> > > >
> > > > Have and carry your paperwork [ *copies* keep originals in a
> safe
> > > place ]
> > > > ie., inspection certs, insurance, map, and dive plan...etc.
> > > >
> > > > Always notify and get permission [ where required and *in
> writing*
> > > ] If
> > > > the
> > > > public waterway has both NPS and Coast Guard jurisdiction,
> then
> > > notify
> > > > both.
> > > >
> > > > Public lands are governed by the general regs, but may also
> have
> > > specific
> > > > rules determined by activity, for example, a university
> > > archaeological
> > > > site,
> > > > hazard areas, and EPA sensitive areas. Check ahead of time.
> > > >
> > > > Plan your launch/dive around the holidays. Recreation traffic
> is
> > > > heaviest
> > > > on holidays and the incidents of accidents, carelessness, and
> > > injury are
> > > > statistically high. You might be the safest most conscientious
> > > person
> > > > in the world, but there is always someone who is not and you
> might
> > > be
> > > > the unlucky one to meet them.
> > > >
> > > > Lest you think that your activity will take you out to sea,
> away
> > > from the
> > > > general populus or outside territorial limits, the UN and
> UNESCO
> > > are
> > > > getting into the act with regulations, too. I'll have these
> > > documents
> > > > too.
> > > >
> > > > I know !....it's a pain in the arse, and we are simply
> concerned
> > > with
> > > > building
> > > > our subs and getting it into the water. But you very well can
> find
> > > > yourself into
> > > > a legal mess [ and maybe a heavy fine ] quite by innocence or
> thru
> > > no
> > > > fault of your own. Do the homework and good planning !
> > > >
> > > > David, how's the little Lady doing ? How are you and the
> Missus'
> > > > ...tired? :-)
> > > >
> > > > --Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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